Not sure how calling Chiarot, Holl, and Maatta mediocre is a controversial take. Chiarot at $4.75 and Holl at $3.4 for 3 more seasons is more than just a stopgap measure.

Exactly

There's a thing called reality that comes into play too. Or do you have a habit of ignoring it?

Detroit have one good RD in Seider. Who would you have Yzerman sign instead of Holl and Petry? Were they even available this offseason? What would they have cost?

Detroit have three prospects on RD in ASP, Tuomisto and Gibson. None of them will be ready this year or even next year.

Detroit have two ready prospects on LD but they are both still recovering from season ending injuries with a shoulder surgery for Edvinsson and they won't be ready for the opening game.

The signings Yzerman have done this season are not blocking any prospects from getting icetime since there is no prospect ready to play when the season starts and on the right side there won't be anyone for at least two more years.

The two of you are both ignorant fools!

Thanks for the name calling. I have a lot of thoughts but I’ll hold my tongue lol.

To directly answer your question, I wouldn’t be making long term commitments to players who are marginal. Chiarot is overpaid. Holl is overpaid. Both got term.

There are always options on the market that are able to provide cheap depth and play up on the lineup. I like the Petry move as a cheap stabilizing depth player. I think targeting Ghostbear at 1 year is a reasonable gamble.

To provide you with a few alternatives because you asked so nicely, here are a few off the top of my head:

- Caleb Jones just signed for peanuts with Carolina
- Dumba’s deal in Arizona seems like a reasonable risk (similar to Ghostbear)
- Hamonic and Ian Cole both signed for cheap if you want a vet
- Kyle Burroughs is a cheap depth option that can be buried in the AHL once you’re done with him
- Lybushkin was available for cheap as a trade option like a week ago
- Durzi as a young right shot option was a bit more expensive but probably fits Detroit’s window better
- Every year there are tons of young guys that pass through waivers due to a log jam on their roster. Leafs ACGMs post Timmins for a 4th daily because they worry about him being a waiver casualty

These are just deals I remember, I’m sure there are others you could pick pretty easily. Detroit committing money and term to guys that are stop gaps is not necessarily aligned with what I would do.

On a retained Roslovic? Probably, I personally wouldn’t do it but the value is probably fair.

Has NOTHING to do with my username
The Sabres aren’t gonna give up a 1st for a rental, period

This is NOT the year we are going “all in” (so to speak)
Still slowly building- hence why we didn’t trade for guys like Hellebuyck &/or Hanifin

Sure, a good defensive center would be helpful
BUT
It’s also helpful to continue to give those assignments to Krebs & Cozens, & further develop their defensive games

ALL signs point to us continuing to develop our youth,
& not make the kind of move you’re talking about
Not at the price of a 1st anyways


No offense, but u clearly don’t have a good handle on what’s going on with the Sabres
Seems like some other ppl feel the same way- even about your understanding of other teams’ situations as well (

Billy12Bob with Detroit, as well as EVERY other Sabres fan that’s commented telling u that we won’t do this….
But maybe you’re right, and EVERYONE ELSE is wrong 🤣🤣
Guess we’ll just have to wait & see


Also, if the Sabres did wanna make a move for a “defensive center” there’s others out there that wouldn’t cost us a 1st to go after

Paying a premium to send Suter the other way after not buying him out would be a waste of assets. Not gonna happen

I know. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want it to happen though.

Want it all you want but I think Nill made the right move waiting. He has to figure out how to upgrade the defense without giving away substantial assets and without hurting cap flexibility. We have an older core and a younger core and some nice prospects coming in. He has to balance all of that. We’ll see what happens. My ideal situation would be Harley pushing Suter to the third pair, a short term Hakanpaa upgrade, and a fourth line that can score (either with or without Faksa)

I don't. He should've bought Suter out when he had the chance, and there's a risk it'll cost us a lot. Potentially a chance at the cup, if he gives us a similarly rotten performance he did against Vegas - I don't think I've ever seen one singular player do so many mistakes leading the opposition to score, and making Heiskanen look like he's average D at best...

There are/were tens of better options than Suter in the market, but he wouldn't budge. I can only hope he knows what he's doing...but I have my doubts.

Hey, I gave you a nice long answer and didn’t get a response. Maybe you just missed it or maybe you’re the ignorant fool here lmao. Want to scroll up to #29 in this thread and either respond or apologize for the name calling?

@turtlemountain I can help you with that.

To directly answer your question, I wouldn’t be making long term commitments to players who are marginal. Chiarot is overpaid. Holl is overpaid. Both got term.
- Chiarot was overpaid, but for 6 years Detroit was not an attractive destination. Have to overpay a bit, and SY chose to get Chiarot. Personally I didn't love it, but it doesn't hurt the teams' future plan. Holl would have received around 3M just about anywhere he signed, so SY probably had to bump it a bit. Doesn't hurt the team since ASP/Gibson/Tuomisto will be ready to relieve him in 2-3 years.

There are always options on the market that are able to provide cheap depth and play up on the lineup. I like the Petry move as a cheap stabilizing depth player. I think targeting Ghostbear at 1 year is a reasonable gamble.
- Would have preferred Petry to Holl signing rather than both, but to bring him in for a guy who was headed back to Sweden and a 4th, more depth and injury insurance. Ghost is the hired gun set to help the anemic PP before getting shipped off to a contender at the deadline to recoup assets.

To provide you with a few alternatives because you asked so nicely, here are a few off the top of my head:

- Caleb Jones just signed for peanuts with Carolina
He is a LD. Detroit has plenty. Ghost is going to be a PP merchant which is why he was brought in.

- Dumba’s deal in Arizona seems like a reasonable risk (similar to Ghostbear)
Tough. Would have liked him in red. I had some insider information that he wanted to go somewhere to build himself back up while also enjoying a year. Personally doubt he would have chose to go to Detroit before he also gets moved at the TDL. The guy's lifestyle is nuts (friend of mine's dad was his driver in Minnesota).

- Hamonic and Ian Cole both signed for cheap if you want a vet
Hamonic wouldn't have been a bad option, but seems like he prefers Canadian teams. Would prefer him to Holl. Cole is another left shot.

- Kyle Burroughs is a cheap depth option that can be buried in the AHL once you’re done with him
3 years for a 1.1M 7-8 D would be redundant with McIsaac re-signed.

- Lybushkin was available for cheap as a trade option like a week ago
Petry for Gus+4th > Lyubushkin for a 4th

- Durzi as a young right shot option was a bit more expensive but probably fits Detroit’s window better
Wouldn't have minded him at all (or Calen Addison who I was beating the drum for on here) but probably too expensive for SY's plans. ASP will be the future RD behind Seider on the second pair with Edvinsson.

- Every year there are tons of young guys that pass through waivers due to a log jam on their roster. Leafs ACGMs post Timmins for a 4th daily because they worry about him being a waiver casualty.
Why would the Wings help alleviate TOR's cap issues by acquiring a #6-7 D. Also the fact that ACGMs aren't reality who is to say that the Leafs want him gone?

These are just deals I remember, I’m sure there are others you could pick pretty easily.

- Agreement that some of the term given to FAs the last two years have been a bit much for my liking. I also agree that there were other options available (although who is to say SY didn't meet with a guy like Dumba, inquire on a Durzi, etc.). Fact is that Detroit isn't competing for a legitimate run this year, and is a still a year or two from making playoffs (especially in the Atlantic). He brought some pieces in, and now can just put emphasis on prospect development while rounding out the roster with ample cap space.

Detroit committing money and term to guys that are stop gaps is not necessarily aligned with what I would do.
- And that is why you, I, and so many others are on this site doing this as opposed to making those choices for millions of dollars.

@CoachCoach - thanks for the response! I was more mentioning that other guy because he went through the thread name calling and then disappeared when people earnestly tried to engage.

As for the list of players: of course we don’t know who would be willing to sign where, personal lives, etc. My intent wasn’t to literally say: sign each of these guys. The point of listing so many options is from those 8+ guys, I feel like you can at least find a handful of options that are more compelling than the options Detroit committed to long term.

Detroit did some of them (again, I like Petry at his low cap hit. Ghostbear at a high hit for 1 year is totally reasonable). But the Yzerplan has had some big misses imo.

Understandable, that happens from time to time on here. I did acknowledge in my response there is agreement that some of the moves could have been different, and I am not in love with the Holl/Chiarot terms. As far as big misses, I don't really see it. Compher and Copp will be great depth pieces when the kids are ready while providing more face-off support. Walman was a great find, Maata helped Detroit land ASP, Yzerman's draft picks seem to be working out great thus far. Combined with the fact that Toronto isn't going anywhere, Boston/Florida/TB haven't shown yet that they will regress (obviously some), Buffalo and Ottawa on the rise, no need to rush. Just steadily improve year to year until the pieces are in place.

Already mentioned above but I just want to echo that as a Wings fan that has truly dug into this, and looked at these signings, I don't view any of the signings as big misses like some surface wings fans and fans from around the league do. You've provided sound analysis so I believe you're one that can come around on this and I'll explain:

- There is probably no reasonable, or especially sustainable way, the wings can seriously compete before the 25-26 season (likely Yzerman aware for some time)

- As a former player, Yzerman likely believes strongly in winning culture, setting a standard, etc etc you get the picture
- There is also the business side of hockey and the Wings have missed the playoffs for what will be close to 10 years, with a fan base used to success
- The Wings had some players in their prime, or entering their prime (Hronek, Larkin, Bert) that decision day was closing in on for new contracts
- Importantly to the above, would these players want to continue on a directionless team? One that has not been very competitive their whole career (long enough now)
- either move on from that era (Larkin, Bert) completely (delaying success further down the line), or try to figure out what is worth keeping around
- Yzerman chose to become more competitive and I completely support that. Didn't exactly have pick of the litter on UFAs though as a result of the last decade.
- This results in Chiarot, Maata, Kubalik, Perron (good!), Copp being signed. Does it improve the team? Definitely. Does it send a message to the team we are trying to improve? Definitely.
-Lots happened last season that needed to be cleaned up and Larkin even acknowledged there were a lot of things in the dressing room that were addressed - In addition, Bert injuries, Vrana issues, Hronek looking great but terrible at the same time. And of course, the decisions on re-signing Larking, Bert etc.
- This results in making the most of the situation, acquiring more assets (ASP, Boston 1st), keeping Larkin and moving on from a fair amount of the older regime.
- But the important bit is keeping Larkin - Thus, we don't have forever to go before being competitive and the young guys grow with a team trying to compete.

Back around to earlier point: 25-26 as first year we might seriously compete (but keep in mind, playoffs before then are desirable).
- Chiarot 4 years at 4.75 - expires in 2026
- Maata 1 year and then 2 years at 3 mil - expires in 2025
- Copp 5 years at 5.625 - expires in 2027
- Perron think we all agree was very good signing and is up this year
- Kubalik also short term and used in trade
- Compher 5 years at 5.1 - expires 2028
- Holl 3 years at 3.4 - expires in 2026
- Ghost, Walman, Petry, Kostin, Fischer are all low-risk, low-term, low-money deals that likely make this team better.
So the conclusion here: Yes, a few of these guys are overpaid and a few got probably what they were worth on the open market. A few got a bit more term than what was maybe desirable. THAT IS HOW WINGS GOT THEM TO SIGN HERE.

But here is the big couple of points:
- Only a couple of these guys are signed past 25-26 when we expect to be competing
- They should be relatively easy to get rid of contracts if necessary, and the wings have a good cap situation
- They should help mentor the young players and provide support - heck, Copp and Compher aren't exactly going to be washed at 31 are they? Likely are very good middle six 2 way players to pair with Kasper and Danielson to ease them into their role, and also help the team win now and then.
- The ones like Chiarot and Holl that everyone think are terrible have been role players in the past, have playoff experience, and would be fairly suitable as 6/7 dmen vets on a competitive team
- Would they be paid too much in that role? Yes, but for only 1 year on a team with no current cap issues that could easily get rid of them IF HAD TO
- Are they blocking the young players? Hardly. I am all for making the prospects earn their spot and now they have to. If these guys are as bad as some believe, they easily should earn that spot. But the competitive culture created is so much better! Many of the prospects are not yet ready and there is no one to block, yet we are still becoming more competitive now, and that is what the direction is trending towards. Build through the draft, subsidize through trades and ufas.

We can't pretend to know everything that goes on in the league, but reality is that not every player wants to go to Detroit, and not every player is a fit. Yzerman can only sign willing parties and at times may have to pay extra for those that are willing. We also don't know what offers these players had from other teams - lest we forget Chiarot was traded for a 1st. Now, that's not to say gun to his head he absolutely had to sign Holl and Chiarot. But let's face it, they play a depth, solidifying, veteran presence role on a team with a lot of uncertainty and change. Some Steadiness is likely a good thing, and yes, that even means their presence on mid-term deals. Their experience, grittiness, and even expendability (easier to scratch when beat out than a fan favourite lol) can be positives. Many of these signings have improved the team, improved the competitive culture of the team, and not handcuffed us long term or blocked the prospects from a spot. There is more depth for injuries as well. Checks across the board from me.

Sorry that is a lot, hope some of it makes sense. Just trying to honestly explain what has happened, why it has happened, and that it all fits into a reasonable plan for success. I personally think they earn a playoff spot this year.