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The challenge of not having an AHL team

Created by: NHLfan10506
Team: 2024-25 Carolina Hurricanes
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 27, 2023
Published: Dec. 27, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
What is the plan in Carolina?

They have the fewest number of players under contract.
They have the largest number of players on reserves.
They do not have an AHL affiliate
They do not have an ECHL affiliate


----

Carolina is only team without an AHL affiliate after their former affiliate, the Chicago Wolves, went independent in April 2023 The Canes have had to adjust on the fly, sending players to six different AHL teams and three different ECHL teams.

Since Chicago broke ties with Carolina, the Canes have signed five ELCs. Goalie Yaniv Perets, defenseman Dom Fensore, undrafted free agent Griffin Mendel, and forward Justin Robidas were all sent to ECHL. Former 2023 pick Felix Unger Soren is still playing in Sweden. The rest of their 2023 draft slate is either playing in Europe or in NCAA.

They have found spots for thirteen prospects...
-- Callahan Burke: Colorado (AHL) (COL)
-- Dylan Coghlan: Springfield (AHL) (STL)
-- Domenick Fensore: Chicago (AHL)/Norfolk (ECHL) (WPG)
-- Pyotr Kochetkov: Syracuse (AHL) (TBL)
-- Griffin Mendel: Chicago (AHL) / Norfolk (ECHL) (WPG)
-- Bryce Montgomery: South Carolina (ECHL) (WAS)
-- Blake Murray: Allen, Florida, Norfolk (ECHL) (OTT, FLA, WPG)
-- Yaniv Perets: Norfolk (ECHL) (WPG)
-- Vasily Ponomarev: Chicago (AHL) / Tucson (AHL) (ARI)
-- Jamieson Rees: Springfield (STL)
-- Justin Robidas: Norfolk (ECHL) (WPG)
-- Ronan Seeley: Chicago (AHL) / Norfolk (ECHL) (WPG)
-- Ryan Suzuki: Springfield (AHL) (STL)

(Mendell, Murray, Rees, Suzuki are RFAs in 2024)

Five former AHLers have left to play in Europe...
-- Noel Gunler
-- Anttoni Honka
-- Ville Koivunen
-- Alexander Pashin
-- Tuukka Tieksola

The let the rights to three players expire...
-- Jake Kucharski (under ECHL contract)
-- Robert Orr (44 pts in 34 games in QMJHL)
-- Kevin Wall (3 pts in 16 games in AHL)

They traded the rights to two players...
-- Patrik Puistola (16 pts in 28 games in Liiga)
-- Massimo Rizzo (31 pts in 18 games in NCAA)

(Aleksei Heimosalmi is also signed and continuing to play overseas)

They have no prospects playing in CHL.

----

I don't think it has been a major problem yet, but one could see how it could become one. Since their split with Chicago, they have lost five guys to Europe. They let rights to a few prospects expire (although two probably weren't worth signing). They traded a very good prospect off their reserves in August, when they dealt Massimo Rizzo to Philadelphia for 26-year old David Kase and a fifth round pick (Rizzo currently leads the NCAA in scoring). They haven't drafted a player out of CHL since 2021 (they have eight picks in 2024 draft).

Signing agreements with other clubs AHL and ECHL affilaites to house some of their players is only a band-aid approach. Without an AHL team, they risk losing more (and better) prospects.

----

So what is the plan?
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
2$950,000
3$950,000
2$950,000
2$950,000
3$950,000
3$950,000
3$950,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
7$6,000,000
1$4,500,000
2$2,200,000
1$1,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$6,500,000
1$3,000,000
1$2,000,000
1$2,000,000
1$1,000,000
1$800,000
Trades
1.
CAR
    Alexander Nikishin
    ANA
      I know he has a contract overseas, but if they can bring him over, they should. He likely would go straight to NHL, so no AHL program probably wouldn’t impact.

      (These are not trades, fyi)
      2.
      CAR
        Jackson Blake
        ANA
          Blake, currently a Sophomore at North Dakota, is a candidate for Hobey Baker this year. He could use another year of physical development as he is on the smaller side, but is slippery and good at avoiding contact. He doesn’t have much else to prove at NCAA level, so could decide to turn pro at end of this season, but more likely after 2024-25 season (his rights expire after 2025-26 season). If he does decide to turn pro, going to ECHL would likely harm his development. They would probably have to send him overseas or to another AHL club, as he likely needs a year or pro hockey before NHL. The challenge may be that, coming from NHL family, his family has been picky about where he plays in the past (which cost him a year of HS hockey). I don’t know what the solution would be…but see how it could become challenging without AHL option.
          3.
          CAR
            Zion Nybeck
            ANA
              Nybeck may not be an elite prospect, but is a dynamic forward who deserves a shot. His rights expire in June and if he wants to try his hand at playing professionally in North America, it’s hard to see how he would sign with a team without an AHL or ECHL affiliate.
              4.
              CAR
                Scott Morrow
                ANA
                  This one is probably the biggest challenge. Morrow is a skilled RHD playing in his junior season at UMass (can play both sides). The offense is there, but he has continued to round out his game while at UMass (even though they have struggled a bit as team). There were rumors he was considering signing last March, but opted to stay in school (around the same time the news about AHL breaking ties to Carolina). He could sign this Spring to burn an ELC year, or this Summer and try to make the team out of camp. But there are a few challenges as he is not a lock to make team, he will be 3/4 of the way to free agency, and there is now the possibility his younger brother may join him at UMass (Case McCarthy opted not to sign in NJ since he wanted to stay at BU for fifth year to play with his brother, Sabres pick, Gavin McCarthy).

                  So if you are Morrow, and were presented with these options, what would you do?

                  (A) Forego your senior season, sign with hope of making team. If cut, accept role playing with Jets affiliate in ECHL.

                  (B) Sign with Carolina, and work out an agreement to find a spot in Europe or on another teams AHL affiliate for 2024-25 and hope to join NHL team in 2025-26.

                  (C) Return to UMass for 2024-25, play with younger brother, Spencer, and look to sign wherever you want in August 2025 as free agent.
                  5.
                  CAR
                    Bradly Nadeau
                    Charles-Alexis Legault
                    Jayden Perron
                    ANA
                      Other prospects in their pipeline. They have a little more time with these guys. Nadeau and Perron a first-years and Legault is a Sophomore.
                      DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
                      2024
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the PHI
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      2025
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      2026
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      Logo of the CAR
                      ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
                      23$87,500,000$86,595,000$0$20,000$905,000
                      Left WingCentreRight Wing
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Svechnikov, Andrei
                      $7,750,000$7,750,000
                      LW, RW
                      UFA - 5
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Aho, Sebastian
                      $9,750,000$9,750,000
                      C
                      NMC
                      UFA - 8
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Jarvis, Seth
                      $6,000,000$6,000,000
                      RW
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Bunting, Michael
                      $4,500,000$4,500,000
                      LW
                      M-NTC
                      UFA - 2
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Kotkaniemi, Jesperi
                      $4,820,000$4,820,000
                      C
                      UFA - 6
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Necas, Martin
                      $4,500,000$4,500,000
                      RW
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Staal, Jordan
                      $2,900,000$2,900,000
                      C, LW
                      NMC
                      UFA - 3
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Drury, Jack
                      $2,200,000$2,200,000
                      C
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Fast, Jesper
                      $2,400,000$2,400,000
                      RW
                      M-NTC
                      UFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Martinook, Jordan
                      $2,000,000$2,000,000
                      LW, RW
                      UFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptPonomarev, Vasili
                      $795,000$795,000 (Performance Bonus$20,000$20K)
                      C
                      RFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Teräväinen, Teuvo
                      $3,000,000$3,000,000
                      LW, RW
                      UFA
                      Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Slavin, Jaccob
                      $5,300,000$5,300,000
                      LD
                      M-NTC
                      UFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Burns, Brent
                      $5,280,000$5,280,000
                      RD
                      M-NTC
                      UFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Andersen, Frederik
                      $3,400,000$3,400,000
                      G
                      M-NTC
                      UFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Orlov, Dmitry
                      $7,750,000$7,750,000
                      LD
                      UFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Pesce, Brett
                      $6,500,000$6,500,000
                      RD
                      UFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Kochetkov, Pyotr
                      $2,000,000$2,000,000
                      G
                      UFA - 3
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptNikishin, Alexander
                      $950,000$950,000
                      LD
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Chatfield, Jalen
                      $2,000,000$2,000,000
                      RD
                      UFA
                      ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Lemieux, Brendan
                      $1,000,000$1,000,000
                      LW, RW
                      UFA - 1
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptBlake, Jackson
                      $950,000$950,000
                      RW
                      RFA - 2
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Coghlan, Dylan
                      $1,000,000$1,000,000
                      RD
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptNybeck, Zion
                      $950,000$950,000
                      RW
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Burke, Callahan
                      $800,000$800,000
                      C, RW
                      UFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptMorrow, Scott
                      $950,000$950,000
                      RD
                      RFA - 2
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptNadeau, Bradly
                      $950,000$950,000
                      LW
                      RFA - 2
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptLegault, Charles-Alexis
                      $950,000$950,000
                      RD
                      RFA
                      Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
                      Waivers ExemptPerron, Jayden
                      $950,000$950,000
                      RW
                      RFA

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                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:21 p.m.
                      #1
                      TMLBRIAN
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                      Yea they need an AHL team. That's wild!
                      NHLfan10506 liked this.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:25 p.m.
                      #2
                      seanrushton
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                      They can also just bring up Morrow to Carolina
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:25 p.m.
                      #3
                      pretzelcoatl
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                      I don't think the AHL team thing is the biggest contributor here, although it is really bad for their development. Their tight internal cap may prevent them from signing more prospects
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:33 p.m.
                      #4
                      seanrushton
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                      Quoting: pretzelcoatl
                      I don't think the AHL team thing is the biggest contributor here, although it is really bad for their development. Their tight internal cap may prevent them from signing more prospects


                      If they are in the minors... I don't think that they count towards the cap
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:37 p.m.
                      #5
                      ecupirate07
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                      Quoting: pretzelcoatl
                      I don't think the AHL team thing is the biggest contributor here, although it is really bad for their development. Their tight internal cap may prevent them from signing more prospects


                      Lol. Another person talking out of their rear. Tom D doesn’t have an internal budget for the on the ice product. Never has
                      fullblowncaniac90 liked this.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:38 p.m.
                      #6
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: pretzelcoatl
                      I don't think the AHL team thing is the biggest contributor here, although it is really bad for their development. Their tight internal cap may prevent them from signing more prospects


                      Indirectly, perhaps. But ELCs only count against cap if they are on roster.

                      But without a full player development system, they may be forced to add more from UFA pool...and that could impact cap.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:38 p.m.
                      #7
                      pretzelcoatl
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                      Quoting: seanrushton
                      If they are in the minors... I don't think that they count towards the cap


                      Internal cap. As in how much money the owner lets the GM give out.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:38 p.m.
                      #8
                      pretzelcoatl
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                      Quoting: NHLfan10506
                      Indirectly, perhaps. But ELCs only count against cap if they are on roster.

                      But without a full player development system, they may be forced to add more from UFA pool...and that could impact cap.


                      Internal cap
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:39 p.m.
                      #9
                      seanrushton
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                      Quoting: pretzelcoatl
                      Internal cap. As in how much money the owner lets the GM give out.


                      Dudon lets Don spend as much as he needs to win... the hard salary cap is the only thing that matters to Don
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:40 p.m.
                      #10
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: seanrushton
                      They can also just bring up Morrow to Carolina


                      Yes, if he is ready, the timing could work out well.

                      But at camp in July, he himself said he wasn't ready yet.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:41 p.m.
                      #11
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: pretzelcoatl
                      Internal cap


                      Pinching pennies is what got them into their mess with AHL affiliate.
                      Newgod77 liked this.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:42 p.m.
                      #12
                      pretzelcoatl
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                      Quoting: seanrushton
                      Dudon lets Don spend as much as he needs to win... the hard salary cap is the only thing that matters to Don


                      I know the new owner has allowed spending to the cap but it still may impact contracts. Lots of teams have operated just fine with normal sized prospect pools and no AHL affiliate
                      seanrushton liked this.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:42 p.m.
                      #13
                      seanrushton
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                      Quoting: NHLfan10506
                      Yes, if he is ready, the timing could work out well.

                      But at camp in July, he himself said he wasn't ready yet.


                      I think he'll be ready with this year of seasoning in the NCAA... you can also put him with Slavin to help his development.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:46 p.m.
                      #14
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: seanrushton
                      I think he'll be ready with another year of seasoning in the NCAA... you can also put him with Slavin to help his development.


                      Maybe. I dont follow Canes as much as you guys...but I'd think he would take DeAngelo's spot if he makes roster.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:49 p.m.
                      #15
                      seanrushton
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                      Quoting: NHLfan10506
                      Maybe. I dont follow Canes as much as you guys...but I'd think he would take DeAngelo's spot if he makes roster.


                      He'd require top-4 minutes... and Slavin is one of the best guys I know to ease in a offensive-minded defensemen into the NHL and he can't possibly be worse than TDA in his own end.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 6:52 p.m.
                      #16
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: seanrushton
                      He'd require top-4 minutes... and Slavin is one of the best guys I know to ease in a offensive-minded defensemen into the NHL and he can't possibly be worse than TDA in his own end.


                      One sneaky idea would be to draft Spencer to mitigate the desire to play with him at UMass
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                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:02 p.m.
                      #17
                      GeneralLandro
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                      Would they have to buy a new AHL team or start a new one? Not familiar with how that would work
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:07 p.m.
                      #18
                      seanrushton
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                      Quoting: NHLfan10506
                      One sneaky idea would be to draft Spencer to mitigate the desire to play with him at UMass


                      Oooh that sounds like a good idea
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:13 p.m.
                      #19
                      evelutions2
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                      I have a feeling the Wolves will end up crawling back to the Canes and agreeing to another affiliation for a couple of years, at least until the Canes get their own local affiliate (maybe bringing back the IceCaps.) After all, the Wolves are sort of in an unofficial affiliation with the Canes right now.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:15 p.m.
                      #20
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: GeneralLandro
                      Would they have to buy a new AHL team or start a new one? Not familiar with how that would work


                      Most likely would have to wrestle an AHL team away from another NHL team. I don’t know who has affiliation agreements expiring this year, but they do change.

                      If Chicago chooses to stay independent, it may be musical chairs unless AHL expands.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:17 p.m.
                      #21
                      evelutions2
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                      Quoting: NHLfan10506
                      Pinching pennies is what got them into their mess with AHL affiliate.


                      If that is what you believe, you are quite foolhardy. Considering that the Wolves have pulled similar stunts with their previous 3 NHL affiliates (STL, VGK, and VAN if I remember correctly), and this is the first time they actually went independent. They didn’t like the orders the Canes were relaying for developing certain prospects, and we have already seen the difference in results before and after the Canes sent 3 prospects to Chicago. Penny pinching isn’t the problem here.
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                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:21 p.m.
                      #22
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: evelutions2
                      I have a feeling the Wolves will end up crawling back to the Canes and agreeing to another affiliation for a couple of years, at least until the Canes get their own local affiliate (maybe bringing back the IceCaps.) After all, the Wolves are sort of in an unofficial affiliation with the Canes right now.


                      I saw one report saying the Canes are coming up with “innovative” solution, but didn’t describe what that was.

                      My bet is they end up splitting an AHL team for year or two. Most teams should be able to house depth and important prospects on half an AHL team, especially with veteran limits in the A. Problem is usually goalies.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 7:30 p.m.
                      #23
                      NHLfan10506
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                      Quoting: evelutions2
                      If that is what you believe, you are quite foolhardy. Considering that the Wolves have pulled similar stunts with their previous 3 NHL affiliates (STL, VGK, and VAN if I remember correctly), and this is the first time they actually went independent. They didn’t like the orders the Canes were relaying for developing certain prospects, and we have already seen the difference in results before and after the Canes sent 3 prospects to Chicago. Penny pinching isn’t the problem here.


                      Losing the AHL affiliate was combination of lots of things…philosophy, size of market, recent success, demands from top…etc.

                      Losing the ECHL affiliate was about saving money.
                      drambui liked this.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 9:29 p.m.
                      #24
                      ItWasIn
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                      Quoting: GeneralLandro
                      Would they have to buy a new AHL team or start a new one? Not familiar with how that would work


                      I can't 100% remember, but I remember Friedman saying that CAR ownership made it known to AHL owners that they were prepared to buy an AHL team.

                      Obviously, nothing yet.
                      Dec. 27, 2023 at 9:30 p.m.
                      #25
                      GeneralLandro
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                      Quoting: ItWasIn
                      I can't 100% remember, but I remember Friedman saying that CAR ownership made it known to AHL owners that they were prepared to buy an AHL team.

                      Obviously, nothing yet.


                      Wonder what an AHL goes for
                       
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