SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Toronto Maple Leafs

Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump

Jan. 21 at 10:14 p.m.
#276
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 11,240
Likes: 3,020
Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
Nick Robertson scoring? Who could've seen that coming!

I sincerely hope Keefe gives him a chance. I'll be so pissed if this kid gets dealt.


Beat me to it by a second.
NorthernLeafsFan05 liked this.
Jan. 21 at 10:15 p.m.
#277
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 11,240
Likes: 3,020
Quoting: aadoyle
Last year when he had his slump and Murray took over the moment Murray started sucking again Sammy took the net back and never looked back

Despite the end result the DET game showed he was starting to get it together. And tonight he made a nice save in close


Hopefully he keeps it up, certainly would solve some problems. Bridge the gap until Woll is back and then make sure he doesn't get over worked.
Jan. 21 at 10:20 p.m.
#278
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 11,240
Likes: 3,020
Quoting: aadoyle
Keefe oh he scored hmmm HEALTHY SCRATCH

But yea its funny Keefe complains about ABC

But Robertson solves one of the issues in terms of depth scoring lul

4 goals last 6 games for a third liner who Keefe barely plays lul


And his back checking has been good. He's finding his spots and winning his minutes. Unless he can be flipped as part of a package for a real difference maker on the Blueline with term and in the right age range, I would keep him and sell others. Let the kids go nuts this season and see if you can under dog your way to whatever comes and find some big addition in FA like Roy.
Jan. 21 at 10:45 p.m.
#279
McMann Season
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2022
Posts: 2,306
Likes: 941
Benoit and Robertson really impressing me tonight, Knies has looked better than he has in a while. Sammy looks pretty good.
RipNasty liked this.
Jan. 21 at 11:00 p.m.
#280
Leafs going to Leafs
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 9,729
Likes: 2,948
Quoting: RipNasty
Keefe sucks


He's good at some things and bad at others

Quoting: RipNasty
And you would miss Marner so so so so much.


Oh no, those Leafs players can cry in their multiple rings
Jan. 21 at 11:09 p.m.
#281
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 5,595
Quoting: RipNasty
Maybe. Bert is a good player but I think you can find someone who can do what he does for less.


Well this deal would be a lower AAV than what Carolina is paying Bunting. I'd be perfectly happy with that price for that calibre of player in that role


Btw how has Borgen looked tonight? People keep saying he'd be a decent depth add
Jan. 21 at 11:23 p.m.
#282
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 11,240
Likes: 3,020
Quoting: Random2152
Well this deal would be a lower AAV than what Carolina is paying Bunting. I'd be perfectly happy with that price for that calibre of player in that role


Btw how has Borgen looked tonight? People keep saying he'd be a decent depth add


Reminds me of Benoit
Random2152 liked this.
Jan. 21 at 11:24 p.m.
#283
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 11,240
Likes: 3,020
Quoting: CameronSquires
Benoit and Robertson really impressing me tonight, Knies has looked better than he has in a while. Sammy looks pretty good.


Timmins has had both good and bad moments but more good than bad.
CameronSquires and Juice liked this.
Jan. 21 at 11:29 p.m.
#284
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Quoting: Random2152
Well this deal would be a lower AAV than what Carolina is paying Bunting. I'd be perfectly happy with that price for that calibre of player in that role


Btw how has Borgen looked tonight? People keep saying he'd be a decent depth add


Meh

I really dont see what people saw

Like we got him in Benoit and for less lul
Random2152 liked this.
Jan. 21 at 11:33 p.m.
#285
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
While we should not take to much into this game tonight as SEA was gutted

Sammy looked good and yes he wasnt to busy but still not bad for his 2nd game since getting waived on the second half of a b2b

Also hey Keefe u HS Robertson again you a dead man

And keep McCabe-Liligren together
Jan. 21 at 11:34 p.m.
#286
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Hey b2b goals from a blueliner besides Rielly been a while lul
Jan. 21 at 11:36 p.m.
#287
McMann Season
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2022
Posts: 2,306
Likes: 941
Sammy looks back to last year's form, hopefully he rides this high.

Probably the most defensively sound game from the buds this season, or one of the most.

Robertson & Knies both looked good, Benoit was out there laying the body

Rielly with such an underrated two way game again tonight too.

And Matthews, is on fire
Jan. 22 at 12:15 a.m.
#288
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Edited Jan. 22 at 12:24 a.m.
https://twitter.com/_NickRichard/status/1749297202101383180

I swear hes gonna HS them lul
Jan. 22 at 1:00 a.m.
#289
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Edited Jan. 22 at 1:09 a.m.
Apparently STL is potentially gonna look to trade Parayko

Now since Pietrangelo left he had not looked good but this year seems to have turned it around and has been better. Like everytime I see Blue Fans talk about him its "if he only had a proper LD partner lul"

And im not saying to commit but in the WC he and Rielly played pretty well together as a pairing

Idk how u get it done but he is someone to look at.

Probs would guess 1st + Brodie and who knows maybe like Burns we can get STL to ret 1.5m on it or something
Jan. 22 at 11:41 a.m.
#290
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2016
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1,512
Quoting: aadoyle
Apparently STL is potentially gonna look to trade Parayko

Now since Pietrangelo left he had not looked good but this year seems to have turned it around and has been better. Like everytime I see Blue Fans talk about him its "if he only had a proper LD partner lul"

And im not saying to commit but in the WC he and Rielly played pretty well together as a pairing

Idk how u get it done but he is someone to look at.

Probs would guess 1st + Brodie and who knows maybe like Burns we can get STL to ret 1.5m on it or something


I've been wanting to bring in Parayko ever since that World Cup on team North America. There'd be a fair amount of risk for either side making a deal on him. I'd think STL would need to want to go full re-build if they wanted to move him + retain....as if they're just looking to re-tool they'd end up looking for another Parayko type anyway.

and...hypothetically...Morgan is a great comparable when thinking trade return....Morgan had a very rough regular season last year...if he had another middling type of year this year and the leafs were a non-playoff team...would we be content with a 1st rounder and pending UFA? Probably not...it would probably be more worth it to hang on to him and hope he returns to form.

There are differences for sure...Morgan has been a top pairing guy for several years and proven himself vs Parayko who seemed to battle it a bit once Pietrangelo left and his role/minutes increased...but I would think it would take a lot more robust package than TJ and a first and wouldn't count on any retention.

It makes it a very tough transaction to pull the trigger on given the risk.
Jan. 22 at 11:57 a.m.
#291
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 5,595
Quoting: Juice
I've been wanting to bring in Parayko ever since that World Cup on team North America. There'd be a fair amount of risk for either side making a deal on him. I'd think STL would need to want to go full re-build if they wanted to move him + retain....as if they're just looking to re-tool they'd end up looking for another Parayko type anyway.

and...hypothetically...Morgan is a great comparable when thinking trade return....Morgan had a very rough regular season last year...if he had another middling type of year this year and the leafs were a non-playoff team...would we be content with a 1st rounder and pending UFA? Probably not...it would probably be more worth it to hang on to him and hope he returns to form.

There are differences for sure...Morgan has been a top pairing guy for several years and proven himself vs Parayko who seemed to battle it a bit once Pietrangelo left and his role/minutes increased...but I would think it would take a lot more robust package than TJ and a first and wouldn't count on any retention.

It makes it a very tough transaction to pull the trigger on given the risk.


He has one of the worst deals in the league. There might be a useful player in there somewhere but he needs to come about as cheap as Burns did and with a similar amount of retention for me to even consider. That length still scares the **** out of me.

That would work out to being something like c prospect, c prospect, 3rd for 6.5@4.3 Parayko, aged out c prospect
Jan. 22 at 12:26 p.m.
#292
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2016
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1,512
Quoting: Random2152
He has one of the worst deals in the league. There might be a useful player in there somewhere but he needs to come about as cheap as Burns did and with a similar amount of retention for me to even consider. That length still scares the **** out of me.

That would work out to being something like c prospect, c prospect, 3rd for 6.54.3 Parayko, aged out c prospect


Exactly why it would be a tough deal. I doubt St. Louis looks at him as a contract they want to dump or sell cheap on...and I doubt buyers are willing to send a package for him that moves the needle...and somewhere in between is a potential deal that neither fan base would be happy with.
Jan. 22 at 12:59 p.m.
#293
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Quoting: Random2152
He has one of the worst deals in the league. There might be a useful player in there somewhere but he needs to come about as cheap as Burns did and with a similar amount of retention for me to even consider. That length still scares the **** out of me.

That would work out to being something like c prospect, c prospect, 3rd for 6.54.3 Parayko, aged out c prospect


I would give whatever CAR did for Burns maybe a tad more.
Jan. 22 at 1:02 p.m.
#294
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Quoting: Juice
I've been wanting to bring in Parayko ever since that World Cup on team North America. There'd be a fair amount of risk for either side making a deal on him. I'd think STL would need to want to go full re-build if they wanted to move him + retain....as if they're just looking to re-tool they'd end up looking for another Parayko type anyway.

and...hypothetically...Morgan is a great comparable when thinking trade return....Morgan had a very rough regular season last year...if he had another middling type of year this year and the leafs were a non-playoff team...would we be content with a 1st rounder and pending UFA? Probably not...it would probably be more worth it to hang on to him and hope he returns to form.

There are differences for sure...Morgan has been a top pairing guy for several years and proven himself vs Parayko who seemed to battle it a bit once Pietrangelo left and his role/minutes increased...but I would think it would take a lot more robust package than TJ and a first and wouldn't count on any retention.

It makes it a very tough transaction to pull the trigger on given the risk.


The contract sucks but there would probs be a way to get it done, heck move Brodie to make the money work I guess or something

But man imagine the first pairing

Rielly-Parayko

6'1 225 pounds playing with 6'6 230 pounds lul

Parayko to me could be interesting here either with McCabe or Rielly. Sure there's risk but also reward to.
Jan. 22 at 1:56 p.m.
#295
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2016
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1,512
Quoting: aadoyle
The contract sucks but there would probs be a way to get it done, heck move Brodie to make the money work I guess or something

But man imagine the first pairing

Rielly-Parayko

6'1 225 pounds playing with 6'6 230 pounds lul

Parayko to me could be interesting here either with McCabe or Rielly. Sure there's risk but also reward to.


Here's my take tho...and again..coming from someone who's been a big Parayko fan for years...

One of the things Dubas was quite good at was filling out this roster with quality pieces on good deals. Under him, we really didn't have bad contract since Marleau. We complained about Kerfoot and Holl...but they just happened to be the "worst contracts" on a team with guys who were all playing or exceeding their deals....they were actually quite good for what we were paying them. Tavares is definitely in the realm of bad contract now but he's been a point/game guy up to this year and he's only got a year and a half left.

With all these big extensions now....the margin for error in giving out cap/term to fix the d-core is so thin. Brad's ability to re-shape the blue line between now and next season probably defines this team's ceiling....so if you give up assets to bring in a guy like Parayko...he can't be wrong on him...it's less about what you have to give up (because it would probably be hefty) and more about committing the cap and term.

So yes...there's risk...and you hope there's reward...but if he can't give you more than what a TJ has done at 1RD (prior to this year) then it's the economic cost of what else Brad could have done with the cap space and it could easily become an unmovable contract for the next several years.

I think a trade is definitely worth exploring...but risk factor is high
Jan. 22 at 2:09 p.m.
#296
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Quoting: Juice
Here's my take tho...and again..coming from someone who's been a big Parayko fan for years...

One of the things Dubas was quite good at was filling out this roster with quality pieces on good deals. Under him, we really didn't have bad contract since Marleau. We complained about Kerfoot and Holl...but they just happened to be the "worst contracts" on a team with guys who were all playing or exceeding their deals....they were actually quite good for what we were paying them. Tavares is definitely in the realm of bad contract now but he's been a point/game guy up to this year and he's only got a year and a half left.

With all these big extensions now....the margin for error in giving out cap/term to fix the d-core is so thin. Brad's ability to re-shape the blue line between now and next season probably defines this team's ceiling....so if you give up assets to bring in a guy like Parayko...he can't be wrong on him...it's less about what you have to give up (because it would probably be hefty) and more about committing the cap and term.

So yes...there's risk...and you hope there's reward...but if he can't give you more than what a TJ has done at 1RD (prior to this year) then it's the economic cost of what else Brad could have done with the cap space and it could easily become an unmovable contract for the next several years.

I think a trade is definitely worth exploring...but risk factor is high


The one thing I will say on Parayko is when u look at his partners since signing that 6.5m deal its kind of understandable why the numbers havent been over the top at times.

Basically since Pietrangelo left the partners have been

Nick Leddy
Justin Faulk
Marco Scendella
Torey Krug
Niko Mikolla

Kind of reminds me of Rielly lul


This year and 2022 season Parayko was good/has been good. And thats the crossroad

Inconsistencies and who we gonna get. This is a trad thats risky but if the price aint crazy have to heavily explore as in FA the options arent crazy this year in terms of potential top pair RD.

There be three prime targets but we may not get any of them (Roy, Demelo, Pesce)
Jan. 22 at 2:18 p.m.
#297
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2016
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1,512
Quoting: aadoyle
The one thing I will say on Parayko is when u look at his partners since signing that 6.5m deal its kind of understandable why the numbers havent been over the top at times.

Basically since Pietrangelo left the partners have been

Nick Leddy
Justin Faulk
Marco Scendella
Torey Krug
Niko Mikolla

Kind of reminds me of Rielly lul


This year and 2022 season Parayko was good/has been good. And thats the crossroad

Inconsistencies and who we gonna get. This is a trad thats risky but if the price aint crazy have to heavily explore as in FA the options arent crazy this year in terms of potential top pair RD.

There be three prime targets but we may not get any of them (Roy, Demelo, Pesce)


Those aren't awful d-partners. Even if, as you suggested...he got paired with McCabe...where would you slot McCabe in on that list?

He was great as a 2nd pairing guy with Pietrangelo taking on the toughest assignments. Much less so when that became his job.

In Toronto...if we're going to commit $6.5+ million to someone on the blue line, I think we need him to be able to take on the tough assignments.
Jan. 22 at 2:26 p.m.
#298
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 5,595
Quoting: Juice
Those aren't awful d-partners. Even if, as you suggested...he got paired with McCabe...where would you slot McCabe in on that list?

He was great as a 2nd pairing guy with Pietrangelo taking on the toughest assignments. Much less so when that became his job.

In Toronto...if we're going to commit $6.5+ million to someone on the blue line, I think we need him to be able to take on the tough assignments.


How would you feel about a 2RD that costs 4.3? 33% ret

I don't hate it, I'm just nervous
Saskleaf liked this.
Jan. 22 at 2:31 p.m.
#299
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 34,033
Likes: 20,957
Edited Jan. 22 at 2:40 p.m.
Quoting: Juice
Those aren't awful d-partners. Even if, as you suggested...he got paired with McCabe...where would you slot McCabe in on that list?

He was great as a 2nd pairing guy with Pietrangelo taking on the toughest assignments. Much less so when that became his job.

In Toronto...if we're going to commit $6.5+ million to someone on the blue line, I think we need him to be able to take on the tough assignments.


I mean they arent really that good though when u consider who they are

This is his primary partner this year

https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1505967252251844613

McCabe would probs be one of his best partners with guys like Bouwemeester, Pietrangelo, etc.

https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1630274547181076481?lang=en



But I feel like what SJS did with Burns or NSH did with Ekholm u probs could squeeze some Ret out of em
Jan. 22 at 4:24 p.m.
#300
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2016
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1,512
Quoting: Random2152
How would you feel about a 2RD that costs 4.3? 33% ret

I don't hate it, I'm just nervous


I don't hate it either...I'm just not convinced you're going to get that much retention for so many years without giving up a boatload
 
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll