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McJoe7

Member Since
Oct. 6, 2020
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Toronto Maple Leafs
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Vegas Golden Knights
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Forum: Trade Machine Proposals2 hours ago
Thread: Money in and money out who says no
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>svfsdv</b></div><div>Trading for Theodore makes the Leafs signifcantly worse. And doesnt leave them enough money left to do anything of value. I dont see why anyone thinks this? A UFA D man who would slot in as the Leafs #4, makes too much money, and is lucky to play 50 games a year? We have one of those. His name is Edmundson. And he will only cost 3.5m and we get to keep Marner lol</div></div>

We are watching different Shea Theodore's. Theodore is immediately the Leafs best offensive dman. Vegas shelters him a big with offensive starts, but his advanced stats are off the charts, he plays 22+ minutes a night almost every year, he's signed for 5.2 this season, he's likely looking at a contract smaller than Rielly's after this year. Injuries are definitely a concern and he'd be another not physical defender on the back end but he's easily the 2nd best dman on the team and would immediately QB the PP. How could he possibly be the 4th?
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals2 hours ago
Thread: Unite Robos
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>svfsdv</b></div><div>Yes I know who he is. I agree, Dallas would likely not do this because of the success they are having. That has nothing to do with his actual worth. Marner is a more valuable player than Oettinger is. We cant sit here playing fantasy GM, suggesting trades that would never happen in a million years for any number of reasons, and then complain about technicalities lol The point of these fantasy trades is to look at value. I could just as easily talk about how Marner would never waive to go to Dallas. Or how PIT would never trade Crosby for Marner, even though is would be way better for their team long term. I assumed we all understood the assignment here lol Sorry if you dont. If you dont agree, wait and see in the coming years. We will see who ends up getting paid more. Marner or Oettinger. Its gonna be Marner by a million miles. Because all the teams in the league know who has more actual value.</div></div>

Marner will get paid more than Oettinger for sure. Marner has already made more than Oettinger might in his whole career. Goalies don't get paid as much as scorers do.

Where the Leafs are now and where Marner is in terms of value, if they can get Oettinger for him, they're doing it in a second. But you are right about the problem with this deal, there's no universe where Oettinger is available in a Marner trade. It's probably more likely that the Leafs and Stars work out a Marner for Jason Robertson based trade than it is for the Leafs to trade Marner and Nick for Oettinger.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals3 hours ago
Thread: Money in and money out who says no
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>n0va17</b></div><div>I'm not sure how the Leafs dont get any value here? They need Defence and Goaltending. Vegas has a plethora of D-Men and 2 goalies, they need more scoring and playmaking. So this fits both sides. Leafs get a solid Canadian D-Man who can play first or second pair on the right side, and a goalie who can split shifts with Woll. This trade would entice Marner to waive his clause. Vegas is enticed because they get the star player and 2 prospects to replace the outgoing players. IDK but to me this makes sense on both sides as long as the Leafs can get an extensions from these two.</div></div>

I saw someone in another trade idea send the Leafs Theodore and Roy and then dumped Adin Hill and I wondered about all 3 of them for Marner.

I think if the Leafs are going to trade Marner and they can get Theodore+ back, that's an amazing trade. Whether its Theodore and Hill or Theodore and Roy or with both of them, its a great deal for Toronto. Literally every possible Marner trade is going to make the Leafs worse, at least this one fills a couple of huge holes on the roster.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsMay 16 at 12:33 p.m.
Thread: Marner to Isles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SpennyE</b></div><div>I think a general undervaluing of Marner is probably accurate to how GM's will view him. Most people tilt towards a regular season bias, which bodes well in Marner's favour, but GM's want those players who can pull a team through the playoffs (especially for $11m). The problem is we have SO much data of Marner's playoff performance, and none of it is good. I don't think Leaf's fans will be particularly happy with the return, unless it fits their unique need - a number 1 goalie, or some solid defender(s)</div></div>

I think Leaf fans are going to be disappointed too lol. Marner is being destroyed though. Marner has scored at a better than 90 point pace every year since 2017-18. He's 9th in scoring in that time frame. He's also one of our best penalty killers and the anchor of the PP which has finished top 5 each of the last 4 years. The ONLY player in the NHL to also score at a point per game and play more than 2 minutes on the PP and PK this season is Sam Reinhart. Slide that down to 1:50 on the PK and you add Barkov, Eichel, and Zibanejad. That's obviously not the best judge of anything, but there are very few players that take on the kind of burden that Marner does for Toronto.

He was terrible in the playoffs this year, he was terrible against Florida last year, he hasn't been good in the playoffs. Not gonna pretend. But you still have to get there. The Leafs WILL take a step back next season no matter who they get back for Marner. There are teams that can add Marner and have the pieces around him that will make up for his playoff disappearances and his regular season dominance will help get them to the spot where those guys matter. The Leafs will be disappointed by the return, but I've seen trade ideas where the Leafs are getting like a bad contract, a mediocre prospect, and a combination of non 1st round picks and the return won't be that low.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsMay 16 at 12:13 p.m.
Thread: Marner for Saros
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>svfsdv</b></div><div>No, because the whole purpose of that money is to upgrade your defense. What are you going to upgrade for 3m? Keep in mind you are also only getting Saros for a single year too. Then he wants 10m a season to stay in TO. If I am NASH, Im feeling a lot better about signing a 28 year old winger for 11m a season long term. Than a 31 year old goalie to 8 or 9m long term lol And Toronto would have to pay the Canadian premium to keep Saros.</div></div>

I mean, right now, they have 18 ish million in cap space, if something like that gets a trade done that you want (I'm just saying in theory because I don't think that this is that trade) is there really a huge difference between 21 million and 23 million? You can still probably sign 2 of Pesce, Tanev, Zadorov, Skjei, maybe even Montour if he hits free agency. Having that extra space maybe changes the math a little bit but I don't think it should be ruled out.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsMay 15 at 3:14 p.m.
Thread: Marner for Saros
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Just_A_Guess</b></div><div>Fair enough, I'm just tired of the same Saros/Marner posts so I figured I'd just copy and paste the same comment so eventually it might sink in.

I would make an offer for Marner for sure, I'd even be interested in JT (50% retained). I would include the 2024 1st but not interested in paying Marners bonus so would have to be after July 1 meaning no 2024 picks. I'd look at any combination of:

2025 1st(s)/picks, Schaefer, Lind, Tomasino, Parssinen, Prokop, Wood Glass (I know he's not a future but Glass + for JT retained I think could work to save TOR money and garner some assets), Lauzon (I think he's the kind of defender TOR could use on the back end). Most/all of these guys are young enough to continue to develop and would help fill out the rest of the Leafs roster without loading all the money into 4 players. Plus the rest of what won't be deployed can be flipped for a goaltender from a rebuilding/retooling team and maybe another defender.

I'd include Fabbro here as well but I'm hoping Trotz makes a hail mary with CGY for Andersson with him and the 2024 1st++.

The goalie succession of Saros/Askarov lines up perfectly with both having 1 year remaining giving Askarov the year to learn directly under Saros and potentially overtake him naturally. I feel that, at the bare minimum, Nashville needs to start the season with both Saros and Askarov for this very reason.

If Nashville could bring in Marner, 50% JT, &amp; Andersson this offseason using mostly the futures assets we currently possess I would be ecstatic. We would deplete plenty of our assets making these moves but would make us much stronger going into next season and possibly the subsequent seasons that follow.

Does this satisfy your curiosity? lol</div></div>

It does. Its a very good answer. I'm not sure it does you a lot of good to give up too many of Schaefer, Lind, Tomasino, Parssinen, Prokop, and Wood. They aren't all going to pan out so if you give too many of them up, you gotta guess right.

I don't think JT's getting traded at 50%. He's the captain, he's from Toronto, and he has little kids, I think its more likely he signs more of a sweetheart deal next year than he gets traded for 10 cents on the dollar with retention.

And I guess my only other question is, in that scenario, are you happier losing Saros for nothing as an FA next offseason after Askarov takes his job or trading him now and hoping Askarov takes the job? They're definitely both risky, especially when I lay them out like that. And you don't typically get very much for a goalie at the deadline. Buffalo getting Halak, Chris Stewart, a prospect, a 1st, and a 3rd for Ryan Miller is probably the ceiling for a Saros trade. I don't even know if you're wrong, but I bet the difference in Saros trades now vs getting something like Talbot, Grundstrom, a prospect, a 1st, and a 3rd from LA is worth losing Saros for nothing and getting longer to evaluate whether you need to have both of them? I don't know. I wish the Leafs were in a position where we had to decide between keeping 2 potentially elite goaltenders or trading one of them lol.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsMay 15 at 2:22 p.m.
Thread: Marner for Jones I guess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>svfsdv</b></div><div>Nope. Why would the Leafs trade Marner for cap space, in order to get back just as much cap that is way way worse lol Jones is one of the leagues worst contracts. I would trade Marner for Jones 1 for 1 if CHI ate 50% and paid a third team to eat another 25%. Maybe.</div></div>

In this trade, they aren't trading him for cap space. You can't get it all. Marner is an elite player but he's a distressed asset, you aren't going to get cap space and a super amazing return.

I don't like this trade either despite me posting it. I am in the camp that believes what Rachel Doerrie said on the Staff and Graph podcast that Treliving wants a big D and Marner might be willing to go to Chicago, Nashville, or Vegas. I don't want them to trade for Seth Jones, but I don't think its impossible.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsMay 15 at 2:15 p.m.
Thread: Marner to Vegas v1
Vegas is crazy. And the most fun, it's the best. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Vegas tried to trade for Marner in what will be a buy low scenario for a guy who on a good day (that isn't in the playoffs) is one of the best forwards in the NHL.

There was a rumour on the Staff and Graph podcast that Treliving and the Leafs like Hague and that there's a contract that Vegas would have to move the other way to match the salaries that is someone who's been a part of that team. Karlsson is my ultimate guess really. He's been there a long time but with Eichel, Hertl, and Roy, he's expendable. But if I'm wrong, would anyone be shocked if this trade was somehow Hague and Stone for Marner +++ ? Would Vegas deal Mark Stone? He has 3 years left at 9.5 and he hasn't played more than 65 games since 2017. He played 56 games this year and that's the most games he's played in a Vegas uniform since 2019-20 when he played 65 in the covid shortened season. I could see Theodore being a guy they move too. He has 1 year left and they have Pietrangelo and Hanifin locked up long term now, this is the time they move on from players.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsMay 15 at 1:55 p.m.
Thread: Marner for Saros
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Just_A_Guess</b></div><div>Nope, but what you can have for Marner is a package of futures to send elsewhere for the goalie you desire.</div></div>

you have the same comment in a bunch of threads. I am curious if you think Nashville should trade for Marner and what you think Nashville should trade for him. I think there's probably a version where Nashville has a lot of really solid middle of the lineup type forward prospects, so if they can compile some of those guys with some picks and maybe the Leafs want like Fabbro or Lauzon or even McDonagh in a weird version and then the Leafs move some of that stuff to Calgary for Markstrom or Anaheim for Gibson but I'm curious what you actually think other than your copy and pasted comment lol.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsFeb. 28 at 10:42 a.m.