While I have to agree that the Blues do heavily decline this trade because of Parayko's involvement, I have to disagree with your premise about Marner. He's not overrated. If anything, he made JT better not the other way around. I don't like the expected goals for and corsi stats because that's not reallt indicative of a player's skill. Much like how plus/minus has gotten beaten for its dependence on other players/factors, those other stats are also affected by the same factors.

Marner is a terrific player and him and JT certainly are pretty dynamic, but to say JT made Marner is inaccurate.

Blues still say no though.

You put Marner with O'Reilly and I think he does just as well. Hell, Marner made Kadri a 30 goal scorer and turned Tavares into a 40 goal guy for the first time

And the 96 and 2001 Avalanche, 97, 98 and 2002 Red Wings were far better than 2016 Pittsburgh. What's your point? It's useless to compare Cup champions because things change so quickly. Who knows, maybe the 2019 Blues beat the 2016 Penguins? There's no way of knowing so it's pointless to argue that

Ditto

Agree, and as I said previously on this thread the Blues earned and deserved their championship.

Is that why Americans dominated the 1st round of the draft this year? Imagine if all of the u.s best athletes played hockey instead of other sports. Typical Canadian doesn’t know anything

I'd love to see Marner and ROR but not at his price. I'm a beer budget kind of guy.

Agreed, I don't want to pay Marner what he's asking. I saw someone say he wouldn't do well here because he doesnt have anyone to lean on which I thoroughly disagree with. I wouldn't put him 12.5 or even 11 for that matter. Unfortunately, he'll get close to that which also means a lockout is looming

I'm afraid you are correct, Chops. Lockout coming.

Overrated is meaning he isn't as good for 11M, and tbf Marner is good, but without Tavares he isn't going to be the 11 Million Producer. I don't see why he is All-Star Top 5 winger, I just go what I see on the stats and in game, and in game (Example Boston Series) he didn't show up in the games I watched, and especially when it comees down to offense. Tavares was the guy making the plays happen not Marner. And his defense lacks he might be getting better but he really really sucks on defense. So again agree to disagree on the whole Marner thing. I like him, but he is far outmatched when it comes to the shooting capabilities which is what I was going for with the offensive stats, otherwise I would have used other stats in supporting why I do not think Marner is a Top 5 Winger in the League. His capability is far beyond just a normal sure, but when it comes to growth he really came to a complete stop when Tavares wasn't around, and when he was he was better stat wise than he was the year before. I don't see O'Reilly being able to be a setup guy for Marner, I don't see it in Schenn either. Marner might be good with Bozak because they played together before, but I still firmly believe that he is well overrated of being the Crosby or Ovechkin Comparison, and even some saying Datsyuk, and Bure. I don't see one bit of it, and with some ideas to why you would hate Corsi stats, I'm using Advanced Stats because it's the best way to analyze a players skill alongside watching the player which I have, but examples are hard to do on here.

Thanks and I agree, I love my team, but I love hockey in general. I do my best to be unbiased and open-minded towards my team (the Leafs)\favorite players. Perhaps I'm not always, but we all have our moments lol. Regardless, no one should be talked too or be belittled like that. I've had a few good hockey discussions with @BeastModeUnknown and can tell he's a very knowledgeable and unbiased fan himself! I've liked the Blues since I played NHL99, on the computer, and won the cup with St.Louis. As a leafs fan I'm very envious of your team as well (I mean you guys just won the freakin cup? congrats btw). Yeah, I also think it will be Babcock's last year! IF he doesn't change his ways (especially in the playoffs??? lol).

Defense is certainly a big part of the game and is especially important with St. Louis' style of play. Marner is visibly lacking on defense, but to his credit, he too could improve like so many others before him. For this reason alone he wouldn't fit in the Blues system, but he'd sure make the offense and powerplay better. He's a good offensive talent, but like Beast is asserting, to be rated as a top five player at any position, this requires a complete game. Marner isn't there yet. Datsyuk definitely played a complete game. Ovechkin didn't at first, but when he figured out he had to or he'd continue to play second fiddle to the Penguins, he made that change and is now one of the best ever. Bure (actually my favorite non-Blue player when I was in my 20s) did not play a complete game, but that was an era of hockey where he did not have to. I've never watched a faster player with sick skills than the Russian Rocket. It sure is a shame he got hurt.

You have no defensive midfield to speak of, and too many attacking players that want control of the ball. A soccer XI is not just about cramming the best 11 players on the field. The pieces have to fit.

He's not a top 5 winger yet. He's on his way there though. You can't really compare him to a Crosby or a Ovechkin yet because he's a different type of player. He does have a good motor. He's not a 10+ mil winger in the league. Only 2 qualify for that in my opinion which is Kucherov and Kane. Based on what I see on the ice, he does come back on the play a lot but doesnt always make the right moves. It took Tarasenko 5 years to learn that style but he did. In terms of playmaking ability though, Marner is a very elite player. One of the main reasons I don't like Corsi or advanced stats for that matter is the fact if you look, Jaskin was one of the "best" Blues forwards in terms of defense which I think we all know isn't true

Actually look at his stats they were relatively low compared.

He wasn't actually especially 5v5. In fact if you look at the team over the last 4 seasons (players who played 50+ games) he ranks 4th in Corsi behind Schwartz, Schenn and Dunn (O'Reilly 5th). And of all the ones in the top 5 during that span he has the lowest zone start percentage.

In terms of Corsi Relative, the only time he finished negative was the 14-15 season (-2.7). 17-18 was his next lowest at 1.2. Every other year his relative Corsi was 3+. In his career his relative Corsi is 2.8. That's pretty decent. But if you watch him play, he did make several defensive mistakes. That's why I dont buy into Corsi.

In 15-16 of players who played 40 plus games, he was number 1 in Corsi. 16-17 he was number 4. 17-18 he was 7th. So he was pretty consistent for the Blues.

I don’t see the point of your stupid post. Dominating the draft one year whereas the Canadians have produced far better players in the last decade.

I give you these two lineups:

Canada:
Stamkos-McDavid-MacKinnon
Seguin-Crosby-Hall
Point-Tavares-Marner
Marchand-Bergeron-Scheifele

Doughty-Keith
Weber-Pietrangelo
Burns-Rielly

Price,Holtby,Fleury

USA:
Gaudreau-Matthews-Kane
Kessel-Eichel-Wheeler
DeBrincat-Larkin-Hughes
Guentzel-Pavelski-Atkinson

Carlson-Suter
Jones-Werenski
McAvoy-Slavin

Quick,Gibson,Helleybucyk

Now tell me, which country will win?

USA hockey on the rise kiddo. No need to cry and get upset because the Americans are hurting your feelings

Thank you for the criticism, you made some excellent points. I do believe it is necessary to have a defensive midfielder in a starting XI because they can provide balance and stability in the middle so that the players up front can have freedom to attack. However in this case, I could not find any defensive midfielders that I felt were deserving of a place ahead of Maradona and Cruyff. Maybe Matthaus, but even he was not as great as the duo I have at central midfield. Other players such as Makelele, Busquets, Jose Andrade, Kante and Redondo were simply not appealing enough to get a place in the All Time Greatest XI. Even the players on the bench there would be attacking playmakers like Ronaldinho, Zidane, Xavi, Iniesta and Pirlo. Unfortunately when ranking in an all time greats team, there are usually more attacking players than central and defensive players.

Here is my all time XI for Argentina and Germany:

http://www.footballuser.com/1761626/Argentina
http://www.footballuser.com/1761666/Germany

What do you folks think of my selections and which team do you think would win if they played each other?

Argentina Maradona is just too good.

Yeah I agree, Messi and Maradona to their peak playing together would be unstoppable. However, I do believe the Germans will win because they have the best structure, discipline and team play. Here is my Brazil XI. What’d you think of my selections and do you think they can beat Germany? http://www.footballuser.com/1762262/Brazil

Any team with Ronaldo Ronaldinho Carlos and Pele will win.

Yes you are right. Did you watch Ronaldo Nazario in his prime? What was your opinion on him?