Forums/Armchair-GM

Norrispalooza

Created by: GuyCaballero
Initial Creation Date: Jan 9, 2020
Published: Jan 9 at 2:53 pm
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Trades
TOR
  1. Jones, Seth
CBJ
  1. Johnsson, Andreas
  2. Bracco, Jeremy
  3. Liljegren, Timothy
  4. Ceci, Cody
  5. 2021 1st round pick (TOR)
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,023,810$0$335,000$476,190
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, C
UFA - 5
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Marchment, Mason
$767,500
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
$694,444
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Brooks, Adam
$759,167
C
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
CBJ
Jones, Seth
$5,400,000
RD
UFA - 3
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
$700,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

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Jan 9 at 2:58
#1
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,677
Likes: 1,044
Quality > Quantity
Lenny7 and MadLin27 liked this.
Jan 9 at 3:00
#2
Lenny7
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 907
To get a guy like Jones (Top 5 RHD in the NHL, and extremely affordable contract), you have to give up something that you absolutely don't want to give up.
GMs, Pmwalker and Sign_em_up000000 liked this.
Jan 9 at 3:00
#3
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 2,099
Weird way to spell auston Matthews
Jan 9 at 3:15
#4
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 509
Quoting: Lenny7
To get a guy like Jones (Top 5 RHD in the NHL, and extremely affordable contract), you have to give up something that you absolutely don't want to give up.


He did, Lily and the 2021 1st, both would be incredibly hard for the Leafs brass to give
Jan 9 at 3:27
#5
Lenny7
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 907
Quoting: Boomer125
He did, Lily and the 2021 1st, both would be incredibly hard for the Leafs brass to give


Ok, let's flip this around-Keeping in mind that Jones > Reilly, what would you say to:

Reilly for Jenner(Johnsson), Foudy (Lily), Dubinsky 50% retained (Ceci), MacInnis (Bracco), top 15 protected 2021 1st.

You'd say no.
Rooney, harrisonwright19, ON3M4N and 5 others liked this.
Jan 9 at 3:47
#6
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 509
Quoting: Lenny7
Ok, let's flip this around-Keeping in mind that Jones > Reilly, what would you say to:

Reilly for Jenner(Johnsson), Foudy (Lily), Dubinsky 50% retained (Ceci), MacInnis (Bracco), top 15 protected 2021 1st.

You'd say no.


None of those players are needs, my point is this CBJ is not shopping Jones - Leafs could certainly use Jones but the certainly do not need him - they are in fact a contender and a playoff without Jones - where CBJ is niether with Jones. Jones would only be shopped if CBJ is concerned about their ability to re-sign Jones (they should be concerned) or if they are entertaining a full scale re-build
Jan 9 at 3:55
#7
Lenny7
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 907
Quoting: Boomer125
None of those players are needs, my point is this CBJ is not shopping Jones - Leafs could certainly use Jones but the certainly do not need him - they are in fact a contender and a playoff without Jones - where CBJ is niether with Jones. Jones would only be shopped if CBJ is concerned about their ability to re-sign Jones (they should be concerned) or if they are entertaining a full scale re-build


Who would have guessed that CBJ, playing in a much tougher division, and after losing Panarin, Duchene, Dzingle and Bob, would be sitting 2 points out of a wildcard spot, and 4 points back of the Leafs. Crazy that a contender would only be up 4 pts on them through 44 games. Wild. Columbus should burn it all down tears of joy
ON3M4N, Book_Hockey and ChiHawk liked this.
Jan 9 at 4:06
#8
Pmwalker
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 768
Likes: 244
Jones would cost Nylander plus or Marner. A grab bag of lesser pieces isn’t going to cut it. A lot of teams could match that if that was the case and aJones was indeed available
Jan 9 at 4:09
#9
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: wojme
Weird way to spell auston Matthews


That is just ridiculous. I would bet a lot of money they you think Rielly is worth a quarter what Jones is as well. Just anti leaf nonsense. When a trade is posted that is obviously not good, like the one above, posting a response that is as equally insane doesn't make one look smart, just petty and emotional.
Jan 9 at 4:09
#10
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 233
Likes: 68
Werenski's having a better season
Jan 9 at 4:30
#11
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 2,099
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
That is just ridiculous. I would bet a lot of money they you think Rielly is worth a quarter what Jones is as well. Just anti leaf nonsense. When a trade is posted that is obviously not good, like the one above, posting a response that is as equally insane doesn't make one look smart, just petty and emotional.


This has been posted multiple times that a top 5 dman on terms of value usually means a quality return and not the garbage posted above
ChiHawk liked this.
Jan 9 at 5:21
#12
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: wojme
This has been posted multiple times that a top 5 dman on terms of value usually means a quality return and not the garbage posted above


A super elite franchise centre is the most valuable asset in hockey. This is a well known fact. Jones is not worth Matthews. That was just a joke. By your reasoning, Rielly is worth Eichel.
Jan 9 at 5:34
#13
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 2,099
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
A super elite franchise centre is the most valuable asset in hockey. This is a well known fact. Jones is not worth Matthews. That was just a joke. By your reasoning, Rielly is worth Eichel.


Jones value>riellys value
Jan 9 at 6:05
#14
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,087
Likes: 1,781
Quoting: Lenny7
Ok, let's flip this around-Keeping in mind that Jones > Reilly, what would you say to:

Reilly for Jenner(Johnsson), Foudy (Lily), Dubinsky 50% retained (Ceci), MacInnis (Bracco), top 15 protected 2021 1st.

You'd say no.


Leaf fan here... It would definitely take more than what the OP offered. It's trades like this that make us all look bad. A trade for Jones starts with either Marmer, Matthews (although that's as unlikely as Jarmo trading Jones right now) or Nylander and Sandin. Some of us get that other teams aren't lining up to help us and won't give us their good players for scraps.
Lenny7 liked this.
Jan 9 at 6:10
#15
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Leaf fan here... It would definitely take more than what the OP offered. It's trades like this that make us all look bad. A trade for Jones starts with either Marmer, Matthews (although that's as unlikely as Jarmo trading Jones right now) or Nylander and Sandin. Some of us get that other teams aren't lining up to help us and won't give us their good players for scraps.


Matthew would cost Jones and Dubios at least. Further to that, the Leafs wouldn't do it. Jones is great but a super elite franchise centre is worth more than anything else in the game.
Jan 9 at 6:11
#16
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: wojme
Jones value>riellys value


But if Jones is worth Matthews then Rielly is worth Eichel because Matthews is better than Eichel. But since it's the Leafs we are talking about that of course is going to be denied and something stupid like Matthews is just a 2C who is over paid is going to be thrown out likely.
Jan 9 at 6:18
#17
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 2,099
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
But if Jones is worth Matthews then Rielly is worth Eichel because Matthews is better than Eichel. But since it's the Leafs we are talking about that of course is going to be denied and something stupid like Matthews is just a 2C who is over paid is going to be thrown out likely.


Delusional
Lenny7 and Pmwalker liked this.
Jan 9 at 6:23
#18
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: wojme
Delusional


And my point is proven. Eichel is terrific but Matthews is better and younger. Jones is terrific and it's debatable who's better since Rielly is far better offensively while Jones is better defensively. Only one of the two have finished 5th in Norris voting last year. But of course the Leaf players are worse because you don't like the team. Crystal clear bud.
Jan 9 at 6:26
#19
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,087
Likes: 1,781
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Matthew would cost Jones and Dubios at least. Further to that, the Leafs wouldn't do it. Jones is great but a super elite franchise centre is worth more than anything else in the game.


Matthews wouldn't get both but I agree he wouldn't be going the other way in a Jones trade. But seriously Rielly and Jones would be the best D pair in the league IMO and I'd be willing to pay a steep price for him. Maybe Andersen could be part of it if we pull off another move for a goalie like the one you posted yesterday! Hypothetically would you trade Nylander and Andersen for Jones and Anderson if Jarmo would agree to that deal or something like it?
Jan 9 at 6:47
#20
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 1,783
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
A super elite franchise centre is the most valuable asset in hockey. This is a well known fact. Jones is not worth Matthews. That was just a joke. By your reasoning, Rielly is worth Eichel.


I would say a super elite goalie is the most valuable asset in hockey vs. "a super elite franchise center" who doesn't play a great 2 way game..respectable maybe but not great. He is one of the best goal scorers though. However, I would argue Matthews is not super elite to the likes of Crosby yet and may never be.
Jan 9 at 8:34
#21
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: ChiHawk
I would say a super elite goalie is the most valuable asset in hockey vs. "a super elite franchise center" who doesn't play a great 2 way game..respectable maybe but not great. He is one of the best goal scorers though. However, I would argue Matthews is not super elite to the likes of Crosby yet and may never be.


I disagree completely, there is a lot of evidence to suggest paying a goalie too much is a mistake. Look at Price for example and compare him to Andersen. Let's say they are close to equal right now but Andersen makes less than half. That gives TO another 5.5 million they can use for Muzzin or someone else.

As for Matthews, I am not saying he's as good as Crosby or McDavid but he's elite and he's only 22. He's only going to get better. And that is very much more valuable than Jones.
Jan 9 at 8:52
#22
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 1,783
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I disagree completely, there is a lot of evidence to suggest paying a goalie too much is a mistake. Look at Price for example and compare him to Andersen. Let's say they are close to equal right now but Andersen makes less than half. That gives TO another 5.5 million they can use for Muzzin or someone else.

As for Matthews, I am not saying he's as good as Crosby or McDavid but he's elite and he's only 22. He's only going to get better. And that is very much more valuable than Jones.


Disagree on goalie being the most important position and comparing a injured and older Price past his prime to a middle tier goalie like Andersen or Matthews contract doesn't make a lot of sense. That said, the goalie market isn't as competitive as competitive and you see that from the year over year lack of consistency of the best goalies in the league. How many goalies in the league could you call elite year over year? Please don't say Andersen. You can say Matthews, Crosby, Ovy, Kane, McKinnon, etc. are elite year over year...a very rare thing for a goalie. Hardest position to be elite and bottom line, not a bunch of kids start out wanting to be goalie which is part of the problem. But for one position on the ice, it's the single most important position that will win games for a team.
Jan 9 at 10:26
#23
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: ChiHawk
Disagree on goalie being the most important position and comparing a injured and older Price past his prime to a middle tier goalie like Andersen or Matthews contract doesn't make a lot of sense. That said, the goalie market isn't as competitive as competitive and you see that from the year over year lack of consistency of the best goalies in the league. How many goalies in the league could you call elite year over year? Please don't say Andersen. You can say Matthews, Crosby, Ovy, Kane, McKinnon, etc. are elite year over year...a very rare thing for a goalie. Hardest position to be elite and bottom line, not a bunch of kids start out wanting to be goalie which is part of the problem. But for one position on the ice, it's the single most important position that will win games for a team.


This convo is pointless, Andersen a second tier goalie. Lol
Jan 9 at 10:42
#24
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 1,783
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
This convo is pointless, Andersen a second tier goalie. Lol


Nobody said 2nd tier, I said Andersen isn't elite. He is good, but not elite. Is he a top 3 goalie YoY? Is he even a top 5 goalie YoY? If he is that is elite. Elite goalies don't give up with Andersen did on the first 2 goals last night, with the first one comical.
Jan 9 at 11:40
#25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,715
Likes: 3,916
Quoting: ChiHawk
Nobody said 2nd tier, I said Andersen isn't elite. He is good, but not elite. Is he a top 3 goalie YoY? Is he even a top 5 goalie YoY? If he is that is elite. Elite goalies don't give up with Andersen did on the first 2 goals last night, with the first one comical.


You are not worth discussing anything further.
 
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