Just filling my monthly need to do one of those, im probably overpaying again, but......

Looks like a lot of trades but actually its two moves at TDL and two moves in Offseason Draft

Lines till playoffs :

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Engvall - Tavares - Nylander
Johnsson - Spezza - Kapanen
Clifford - Gauthier - Marchment

Muzzin - Hamonic
Sandin - Manson
Marincin - Dermott

reserved for future description

@palhal....@jamiepo.......@onex..........@Trickster...........@Sign_em_up000000.......@SammyT_51

Don't like the idea of a 21 man roster and no cap. No sure if investing in 15m in Muzzin, Hamonic and Manson is well spent. Absolutely no depth at centre and that LW looks weak.
IMO tha Leafs should forget about trying to upgrade the defence at the price of futures this season. If it means missing the playoffs, so be it. The summer will be the time to fill one or two RHD positions. Might have to trade Kapanen to do it though.

I like the moves, but I'd like to get Engvall on more term and I don't think Holl will be traded after signing an extension. I know you want him off of the team but he could platoon with Liljegren on Sandin's pairing, or sign a cheaper option to platoon with him because I also don't see the Buffalo and Anaheim deals happening more likely to just move Kerfoot out for picks if we need the cap space. Other than that I like it and think that this is a realistic look at what our roster will look like next year.... Good job! ?

I'm with @palhal on this. The current season should be an eyes wide open scenario as to what happens when you are so up against the cap that having a 22-23 man roster is impossible.

Got to avoid the 21 man roster for next season. Also I don't know how some of you feel but maybe it's time to give up on the Manson idea.

Manson like so many other RHDs in the past few years have been the CapFriendly solution to all the Leafs problems. Get any RHD, at any cost, and there is a Toronto parade in June (no, not the Raptors).

Well thats what you get when you pay Premiums to tie 50M into 7 Forwards and you dont want to play Dermot - Holl as your 2nd Pair, which they arent.

Depth on C is same as now, Kerfoot was moved to LW with reason and Johnsson - Engvall - Kapanen is already a thing.

LW as i said.....if you give big money to Cs and RWs you are doomed to play cheap grinders on position thats not occupied yet...

Also not many quality Ds will be floating around in FA, as far as i checked its mostly ones that will be considered patching, thats why i think things should be done now ( actually in July 2018 already ) while they are still 1 point away from 3rd Place.

21 men roster ...as you witnessed this year, there is and will always happen that someone will be on LTIR, so i dont see that as some big issue...



Someone like Manson is a must ( or Savard if you prefer it better ) cause as Rielly also Muzzin needs a backup so he wont be worn off after 40 Games already while covering 3 corners with anyone he was destined to play for the time at TML.....

I think the bigger solution to not having a 21 man roster next season is to trade Nylander or Marner. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Kapanen or Johnsson get traded in a package for a RHD with term...it's matter of when.

I don't know if there's enough time by the TDL to get something done but the off-season almost assures plenty of time to make such a deal.

Yeah I get it... @Jamiepo, @Jack_, @Sign_em_up000000, and others won't like the idea of trading one of the two names mentioned but...short of a first round win, Dubas will need to think about that money balance between the forwards and D that I mentioned many months ago.

Does it really matter what I like or the other users like? It’s about what is smart and what will this team do. They will not move any of the big 4.

These players to plug in around them are a dime a dozen. Maybe you forgot many of the dark ages of leafs teams. Talented stars are hard to come by. Young ones pre ufa are nearly impossible. Leafs need one more piece. A stud RHD in my opinion.

Expendable players (assuming muzzin is re signed) Dermott, Johnsson and kerfoot. That is more than enough money and leafs have plenty of expendable picks and prospects. As always....

Rielly-magical RHD who leafs us to the promised land
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-liljegren
Marincin-cheap vet

I've been one of the few leaf fans on here saying that we should move out one of Marner or Nylander for a stud defenseman. I think Nylander is more marketable because of the production he provides compared to his contract, but it's all depending on what tier of defenseman Dubas wants to acquire. We know Matthews and Tavares aren't going anywhere, and this roster needs more balance but like @Jamiepo said it doesn't matter what any of us want Dubas ain't moving any of the big 4.

I think the only way, Dubas even considers moving out either is if we miss the playoffs but when then he'll likely see what he can do in FA first and if he misses on his targets then he'll explore the trade market but likely shop players like Kapanen, Johnsson & Kerfoot first, if he's not getting offers he likes then he might consider that option.

I think at this point Kerfoot likely gets shopped before either Johnsson or Kapanen do. He likely packaged with Dermott to get that coveted RHD we sorely lack to play with Morgan. I think Dubas will push hard to get a D before the deadline and likely brings in someone because it would be a monumental embarrassment to miss the playoffs with this roster but you know where I stand on that issue.

I think his point was it's hard to get a stud rhd without moving one of those two. Team's usually want quality over quantity, although, I hope we can get one for a package of those players you mentioned.

I like the moves I just dont see the need for muzzin, Manson and hamonic. The forward group that you proposed is good (I dont think Clifford is good enough to be on the 2nd line even in a complimentary role). Imo out off all the guys on D hamonic would be the one to stay away from. If they could keep holl they would be able to run rielly-Manson, muzzin-holl and sandin-liljegren. Alternatively they could sign hamonic instead of muzzin and keep dermott so they could run rielly-Manson, dermott-hamonic an sandin-liljegren.

You've got the right idea here but getting all 3 of muzzin, hamonic and Manson just creates a log jam in the future. Sandin has statistically been a 2nd pairing nhl defenseman but I dont think hes ready to replace muzzin if they were to let him walk. I dont feel comfortable letting any of dermott, sandin or rielly play against top competition (rielly maybe if he had a manson or hamonic to play with) but I feel that having muzzin- holl as a shut down pairing like muzzin-zaitsev is the way to go. I feel much more comfortable letting rielly, sandin, liljegren and Hamonic/manson play against 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines in any zone as long as they dont have to go against top lines

I cant get behind bringing back Muzzin.
Too old and slow.

In my eyes, Dermott takes his spot.
Yes he needs to improve still and is not quite a stud defensive D yet.

So bottom line Dermott stays.

Like the Calgary trade, dont like Buffalo and Anaheim 3 way.


Not against moving Hyman, he is likely gone later if not sooner.



Hey @Laudan @palhal @jamiepo
Any chance you think Timashov withdraws his trade request?
I want him to stay now that Moore got dealt.

Will just focus to answer this one. History of the last 30+ years is showing that McCabe - Kaberle isnt enough to bring Parade into town, so im trying to make U-turn from that mindset. Holl looks good cause hes Paired with Muzzin who covers three corners of the shift ( many ppl arent able to recognize all the off puck work hes doing ) and whoever was in the ring once in a lifetime knows how much fatigue hitting costs you ( remember McGregor checking the clock after 4th Round ) and on the top of that you go checking, blocking and then rushing with your Offence to help them in O-zone. Thats why Holl all at the sudden is "Top Pair D" in the eyes of TML fanbase and Muzzin is "slow". Said that before will say it again....as Rielly so Muzzin needs a decent backup, which should be Manson in that case and he'll be rested and wont look like hes 36y already being a working horse for one year now with everyone he was destinated to play. I dare to bet Holl isnt "good" all at the sudden cause he started to drink Red Bull, in 40% of the situations he still panics. 2M for 3rd Pair guy is way to much in my books and same goes for Dermott...

The window till Tavares starts to decline is 2-3 years and from my point of view that kind of D is all-in, you can argue that Hamonic and Manson wont fit the "Keefe Wizardy" aka Total Hockey system he brought with him, but you need guys who will stay a bit behind and will be able to either destroy the breakaways that kamikaze rushing in front creates big time or to position themselves correctly while being 2 on 1....

So whoever of those three wont pan out can be exposed at Expansion Draft, if all will make what is expected from them, Picks and kids from Offence can be shipped to Seattle, if both trades are on the spot in value, we only lost Barrie ( who will walk cause to expensive anyway ), Kerfoot , Timashov, Ceci and Holl, so bottom liners and a non-affordable Winger playing as Dman.

Rebuilding teams or teams with other needs will make these moves. Draft assets and prospects are all on the table with mid level players. Teams don’t trade stars for stars typically.

I will answer one part... Holl looked good way before being paired with muzzin and looked good when he was injured. Yes muzzin is a great Dman. Holl is turning a corner too.

Rielly needs a partner. Pure and simple. Someone to help him defensively but can still move up and down the ice. Then muzzin Holl then the kids on bottom pair. Rielly and muzzin need their minutes.

Lots of players who aren't playing enough make a a trade request, or at least want to be traded. Worse thing a team can do is honour trade requests. Then you have 25 AHLers think they have a better NHL shot with another organization and the six bottom enders of the NHL time think they get more ice time with another NHL team.
Is Clifford going to play? Yea Timashov should be a little pissed. Johnsson hasn't done much all season and he gets premium minutes.

I like your thought on Dermot staying. If the Leafs can live quite well...next year with Reilly, Dermot, Sandin and Marincin at LHD. It's the right side....Holl and Liljegren are still iffy so you think another 2 RHD have to added, even if they are just short term veterans on their last contracts.

Its always subjective those things, right......I agree, Holl looked good before but in my books he looked / is looking good as No.5 Dman who together with Dermott would create a decent 3rd Pair that would be competitive on ice for those 15 minutes per night. But now with Tre Kronor kids coming to play at 890k for next 2 years those 2M and 2,5M ( assuming ) are just to much for 3rd Pair......just now beside Muzzin he still looks like 3rd Pair player and i think its mostly urgence of lacking any kind of Ds that makes him being acceptable as "Top 4"....

15 minutes? Rielly and muzzin should be taking nearly 50 minutes. This is why I am not overly concerned about the bottom pair. If it’s a good bottom pair sure, reward them with some extra minutes.

I see Holl a a decent number 4 guy. Not a bottom pair guy anymore. He and muzzin together would certainly get the job done. Especially if you have that player that can keep pace with Rielly’s Minutes on the top pair.

Just for argument’s sake... let’s say..

Rielly-Jones
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-liljegren
Marincin- Bortuzzo

To me that is a defence that could do the job. Plenty of depth to handle injuries.

I don't know about you guys but I really don't see how the Leafs get better defensively by trading Dermott. I say this because if the Leafs trade Dermott, then they'll need someone to replace his minutes and that's not easy either.

Leafs will have to improve the D by trading from the forwards depth they have developed. Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot should be the first ones on the table to try landing the solid RHD.

IF one or more of those guys can't land the D needed...then Dubas may need to think bigger.

The problem i have with Muzzin - Holl Pair is that tasks on that shift are spread 65-35% against Muzzin, so at his age and with all the phisical work he is bound to do in those 2/3 of situations he will wear off pretty quickly and while hes the better of two and a working horse of the Pair the performance of the whole setup will fall imensly. From my point of view he needs a better complement that will push those tasks to 55-45% at least and he wont look slow and declining after 40 Games like some of you guys think he is....

The way I see it is that muzzin gives 100% every night. Give him a better partner and yes the results are better but his workload is still the same. It’s not like he is standing around sipping brandy while the pucks in the other corner.

I would say that workload is 50/50 results are 60/40

The way I see it is that muzzin gives 100% every night. Give him a better partner and yes the results are better but his workload is still the same. It’s not like he is standing around sipping brandy while the pucks in the other corner.

I would say that workload is 50/50 results are 60/40

Why the site decided to post that multiple times... I don’t know.