Namestnikov could also be Hoffman, Granlund, Duclair, etc. Definitely seems like there were better ways to go (imo).

I didn't add Hoffman because I didn't want to hear...you won't get him for 3.2 million blah blah blah. So I just left it at that.

Mercer isn't ready for the NHL. He's a year or two out still.

I call BS. He probably plays for NJ this year. And I'd rather go down in flames with playing talented youth than smoldering mediocrity.

Cap space is there to give him 5+ for a year if you really want. Really I'm just pointing out that there are other options that are as good or maybe better than Kapanen, which wouldn't have cost a first. Namestnikov is one but felt it was worth pointing out a couple others.

I like Kapanen. But he isn't much better than a very competent third line winger. Doesn't really have the scoring touch to take on bigger offensive minutes.
Pens would be much better to keep the first pick and a Hallinder (last years second rounder), and then spend 3.2m (Kapanen money) on UFAs.
Seems like the Rutherford and the Pens have been wasting cap money in the past few years.

Your team is not better

Kapanen > Namestnikov
Jankowski > O'Connor
Mercer isnt 3C material this year

You know you're a good team when you are wishing for New Jersey's center depth...

Besides the jab, Mercer won't be playing in NJ this year.

Jankowski got replaced by Lucic. Lets not go around claiming he's greater than anyone.
The irrational fear of playing younger players needs to end. He can do no worse than what Jankowski would do. When that is the hurdle he clears it easily.

You didn't convince me that this looks any better. I wasn't happy about the Kapanen deal either, so I get that. I agree there were better options (e.g. Granlund), but frankly how can you consider Jankowski as a bad signing at that price?

This is rude and dumb.

I am not afraid to play younger guys. Jankowski is simply better than O'Connor. And it isn't like Jankowski is old, he is 26, two years younger than Namestnikov who you brought in. Why are you afraid to play younger guys? (rhetorical question)

I am also not insinuating that Jankowski didn't have a bad year last year. But one good/bad year doesn't make/break a career.

"Convince me this isn't a better team."... You haven't even put the seed of a thought that your team is better than the real team in anyone's head, much less convince anyone. Convince me that Namestnikov is a better option than Kapanen (even though he isn't) and that a drafted guy that won't impact the NHL for a couple years is better than a guy that is very solid defensively and had 32 points two seasons ago and 17 goals the season prior.

As a side, to counter whatever you are going to toss out for support of Mercer... looking at what might be considered "impact"
2019 draft class, only 3 players played more than 8 games last year, and those were picks #1, #2, and #3. (23 points, leads the group, not really impact players)
2018 draft class, only 5 guys have played over 52 games total over the last 2 years, picks 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7.
2017 draft class, only 8 guys have played over 72 games total over the last 3 seasons.
This is just to show that very few draft picks have impact in early years, and those that do are top-5 picks and a couple lucky hits, and the lucky hits take a few years.
Also, why did you pick Mercer at #18 rather than Amirov with Pittsburgh's #15 pick that was traded for Kapanen? Mercer a little easier to argue for over Amirov?

Rude?

Mercer is a center that's why I took him. This team has desperate need for centers. It seems like the most rational move they would have made given the board.

I get that, impact of other players etc... but they are usually asked to come in and play big roles on bad teams. This is a smaller role on a good team with help. And he's got 2 really good centers to hold his hand on the way.

Also no one is arguing Namestnikov over Kap. If anything I don't think there is much of a difference there which I stated. But as others have pointed out, there is the cap there to sign Hoffman as well.

You are basically saying in the hopes of this whole team on a bounce back of Jankowski. And what I'm saying here is, if you wanted Jankowski at league minimum whatever.
But the top 6 really isn't improved from what it could have been, and the potential of that 3rd line is so much better than what we are currently looking at.
The whole OConnor thing is really a non issue to me. He's only filling in for ZAR here. So I'm not going to bother wasting time on that.
It really comes down to Mercer at 3C. You think he's not ready. I'm telling you I'd rather play Mercer for 12 minutes a night over Jankowski. Especially knowing that 4th line can munch minutes to help take the harder minutes from him. It's a perfect spot for a rookie to succeed.

If mercer would make your team, reversing the Kapanen trade isnt going to help you

3C is not a small role when the 3C is usually the cog for defensive play, yet you want offense from that role too. It might not b a flash role, but it is a big spot to put a just drafted kid into. Also, I went with games played as opposed to offense to simply put the onus on usage as opposed to the argument of offensive/defensive/etc impact which requires discussion/debate. It was a "looks, these kids just don't play for a few years, much less impact"


But you didn't sign player-x. You said "Convince me this isn't a better team." If you want to bring in a bunch of other stuff and then say "Convince me THIS isn't a better team." then maybe, but the team that you presented, no.


No, I didn't. No one did. Not even Jankowski's mom. He is a guy brought in for league minimum for the bottom-6. I said that he had a bad offensive year, but decent offense the prior season. He still was solid defensively and if his hands come back a little he is worth the shot. If anyone puts a team's hopes of a whole team on what a #10ish forward does... that team is trash.


Your top-6 is not better than reality.


A spot for a rookie, maybe. A spot for a 19 year old freshly drafted kid out of the Q, taken in the second half of the 1st round (not a top pick), no. And actually, you are basically saying that you think that Mercer would be the weak spot on the team. Mercer and Namestnikov are the only outside guys that you are bringing in... I just don't understand the "Convince me this isn't a better team" position when you state that your opinion is that Namestnikov/Kapanen is a wash and that Mercer needs to have the 4th line munch extra minutes to hide Mercer. Even looking at your own responses in this AGM, this team is at best a wash. So if you are pointing it to be a what, why would anyone else think it is better?

Basically, the bottom line of this AGM is

Out: Kapanen, Jankowski
In: Namestnikov, Mercer
"Convince me this isn't a better team."
"no one is arguing Namestnikov over Kap"
"Mercer ... knowing that 4th line can munch minutes to help take the harder minutes from him. "

Once you convince yourself that your team is better, maybe we can have the debate. Right now it's not really a discussion worthy premise.

This team isn't a wash though. The improvement on this team does not have to be in the top 6. Lets be clear on that. That was never the intent. The top 6 is basically....a wash. That's the point. The improvement is in the bottom 6.
And the argument is Mercer helps generate more offense than Jankowski. We can talk about defense all day, but the whole idea here was the 4th line eating the majority of those minutes. Much like they did last year. Yes in some sense it is hiding the rookie. Ok that's fair. But what difference does it make if we are hiding a rookie or Jankowski. Because both lines at this point should be hidden. The difference comes in what do they generate when they aren't hidden. Mercer has way more offensive pop in his game. He also plays with speed. So truth be told he'd slide right in to this system.
This team is going as far as the help on that bottom 6 can give them. While the 4th line can help make stops, it's not generating much offense. The current 3rd line of McCann, Jankowski and Poulin if we are even lucky enough to get him, isn't looking at that promising. Every penguins fan knows that can not be the 3C solution. There are like 20 posts a day on that issue.
So when I say you are putting the hopes of this team on Jankowski playing him at 3C you are basically saying...this is it. Limited help from the 3C. As you are hoping for a bounce back that probably isn't going to happen. I'm not going to sit here and argue the kids age. Yeah he's 19. So what. This is a league that is getting younger and truth is, he can play. Being able to pick and choose how you use him to help him goes a long way. Ask any hidden 2nd pairing Dman. This is a better team because the 3rd line can actually impact a game. Screw the age argument it's about the player. He's fast, which means he's dangerous on the ice with the puck. You put him with someone as fast as McCann with a great shot and you got to worry about that speed on the ice.
It's not like he has to play 3C in a traditional role. Crosby already takes the majority of faceoffs. Blueger is gonna get the ones in the DZone when they need a stop. He'd be very limited there. But you get those legs moving on the ice and force the other team to chase. Instead of sitting back thinking you have to defend on that line.

I've had a headache most of the morning and been a bit edgy because of it. I just relooked at what I posted in this thread and realized that it is a bit... aggressive. For no reason. At all. I apologize.

it's all good i don't take anything on here personally lol

I get a kick when guys try to argue with pharrow. This guy really knows hockey and I've yet to see a post of his that was not completely accurate.