I believe habs will be going with the young C core you lined up... therefore it only makes sense to make sure they all have good wingers to play with.

I wouldn't feel bad if Byron or Perreault were scratches, they will at least be good depth for injuries and keep competition with the others in the lineup, I don't see any issue at the moment.

Not opposed to a trade but if the expansion draft and waivers from last year are any indication Drouin and Byron both carry negative value in the league. I think they are useful players so I wouldn't dump them unless it was necessary. Lehkonen carries little value and I doubt he remains with MTL past this season.

Edit:
I think Lehky will play an important defensive role this year with Danault gone, his PK experience will be helpful while Poehling learns.

Detroit's roster is set. The only way we'd trade at this point, would be for a game changer, or a cap dump that came with a HEFTY return (1st round pick or more)

I feel like sitting Byron sends a bad message and based on what we've seen in the past, Byron is not going to sit. He played ahead of Lehkonen this year during the regular season as well as playoffs. He's the assistant captain. Under the current setup, sitting him is not a good look. The only benefit is that Byron is on LTIR so we have time with him. When he comes back, you can;t sit him for the remainder of the season. Thats not an option. Perreault and Paquette didn't sign to be 13th forwards. Frankly they'll be hungry to make the lineup so competition will be fierce.

Let me clarify I want all these guys to play but there are only so many spots available. When everyone is healthy, 1 of the benched forwards will be too good to bench and thus a wasted asset. Much better suited to move on from one of them so that you can replace that player with a better suited scratched player and recoup the assets from the player too good to be scratching. IMO

Just clicked random teams, this wasn't targeted at Detroit in the slightest.

Get rid of Drouin.

Ok, how?

I agree they have too many wingers and should send Drouin out. Maybe get some cap back and a conditional pick

Trading Drouin before he plays a single game this season is probably not possible. Other teams GM's need to see him play before they can pull the trigger. Frankly Habs have zero incentive themselves to trade him before they see him play a single game again. What if Drouin comes back and is on fire playing next to Suzuki and Caulfield? Would you still trade him then? Probably not.

He'd have to come back and be more or less the same player he was prior to leaving for him to regain enough value that a team would trade for him and that the Habs would get some value back as well. Otherwise there's no reason to trade him at a loss or a reason for another team to trade for him without heavy incentive.

Byron is now another year older and coming off of another surgery. I like Byron, he scored some big goals in the playoffs but he is no longer a consistent player... he will have to fight for his spot and that's OK. Realistically, MTL will likely move him next year to make room for a Suzuki extension.

Last year the wingers were: Tatar, Gallagher, Drouin, Anderson, Toffoli, Armia, Byron, Lehkonen... and then MTL signed Perry and Frolik so how is that any different than signing Paquette and Perreault this year? Tatar replaced by Hoffman, Caufield has joined the mix and Byron is currently on IR... everything else is the same. Paquette and Perreault signed cheap deals because the reality is they currently are the 13th and 14th forwards until they prove otherwise. Paquette brings grit that nobody on the habs 4th line will and Perreault could potentially suprise like Perry last year... but I wouldn't be handing these guys spots (Poehling also has to prove himself).

Byron is already injured and I suspect there will be other injuries. Would you rather have the depth and have to scratch someone or not have the depth when you need it?

The players who could be scratched have little to no value so there aren't any real assets to recoup. Depth is the asset they are providing.

let him build equity this year and see what we have, no point in selling low and it costing us picks to move him, he is still a skilled winger when he is on his game we need to give him a shot to do it. His stats are not bad.

4th line should be pretty much set.

Byron will clear waivers, so there's no pressure to make a move as soon as he's ready, and some AHL time will help him get back into game shape. We can wait and bring him back after the trade deadline if necessary.
Poehling is still exempt, so though I don't like it, he could be sent down if necessary as well.
We could just alternate between the two so they both get NHL games in and join the roster permanently after the deadline.

If we do make moves, there will be expendable players. Whether it's Lehkonen, Byron, Paquette, Perrault, or Wideman, that don't work out. If they all work out, then we benefit anyway, so no panic there either.

I think Drouin is going to be necessary. We now have a sniper for 3 lines if we want, and he's able to take on a playmaking role. I'd have him with KK and Hoffman and give them a lot of offensive opportunity.

I'd prefer we had a vet 3C over Perrault or Paquette, as insurance for both KK and Poehling, but that can be addressed later. We should see where KK and Poehling are at first.

We do have extra wingers, but you're right about only those 3 really being tradeable. You don't sign 4 year contracts and move those players after 0-1 seasons unless the player somehow warrants it with an exceedingly poor performance.

Ok well your writing him off already and frankly he's proven time and time again that he can come back. Until proven otherwise, we don't know his effectiveness. I'm trying not to deal in hypotheticals in the future because we simply don't know how he or anyone else will be so we can't honestly use our personal opinion to write off a player from discussion.

Secondly, "moving him" is easier said than done as I illustrated. In no way should the Habs PAY to trade him. If that is the case it make more sense to move the player with value (Lehky) and replace his spot in the lineup with Byron who can fill that role just as effectively or at the very least adequately while not losing an asset.

IMO depth is only valuable when its cost efficient. Byron sitting in the stands at 3.4M is bad management, not good depth IMO. Mainly because he can still fill a role on this roster effectively and trading him would result in a net negative asset loss. Removing the point of trading him in the first place. (Cap space)

Last year, Perry was the 13th forward to start but the difference is he wasn't making 3.4M and an integral part of the team already. If a player makes under 1.05M their contract is completely buriable. . If they stink, no loss. if they're good, they're cheap so yay. Burying Byron still gives a net loss of like 2M in cap. Thats not nothing.

Byron falls into the category where, he's not good enough to earn his contract 100% but not bad enough to bury or scratch for an entire year. (Including his LTIR time). Had he only had this year left, I'd be all for it. he'd be UFA at the end of this year and injured for half of it anyway so there wouldn't really be much the Habs could do other than let his contract end organically. He'd basically just be a teams own rental at that point. But the next year convolutes everything. he'll want to play and based on his rank in the locker room being a assistant captain, he's earned the right to be given it if he's good enough to play there. Meaning someone else would need to be moved out.

Having too many wingers not only effects fringe guys like Byron. Armia shouldn't have been signed to a 3.4M contract to play 4th line minutes........ Its a trickle down effect. Drouin and Gallagher are too expensive for 3rd line roles...... Even if you replace them with Hoffman and Anderson, that's a 3rd line more expensive than most teams 2nd..... The Habs have too much salary spread throughout the lineup on long term contracts that eventually some need to be jetisoned to make way for Suzuki, Romanov, KK, Caulfield, Poehling, Evans etc..

I should have rephrased my title, There are too many *quality wingers on this team. While its nice to be able to role 4 lines like that, having a 4th line as expensive as other teams 3rd and sometimes 2nd lines is not ideal when you got stud RFA's on the horizon and not many players contracts coming off the books the following year.

Byron is not being sent down to the AHL but even if he does, that's 2M still on the cap. Yes the Habs are not in any immediate pressure but being proactive is what good GM's do. Waiting till the last minute always decreases your options.

It's true that it's not ideal to have that much money in your bottom 6. You also want guys that can move up for injuries though, so there's a balance to be found.
This is however probably a little extreme. Signing Armia for that should have meant a place on the 3rd line at least, but then you add Hoffman and Drouin comes back and he's just the natural choice to be pushed down.

For the record, while I am hopeful with having Hoffman, I think the signing was a mistake at 3 years when you add it to the Toffoli and Anderson signings. Too many guys around the $5M mark with term signed in a short period of time is bound to cause some congestion.

I'm not against the idea of clearing up that congestion. I think we should take as much time as possible unless something falls into our laps though.

1. No, where did I write Byron off? I said he will have to fight for his spot... I didn't say he doesn't have one.

2. It's not a hypothetical. Let's assume KK and Poehling get the contracts you signed them to... that means MTL has $65M dedicated to 15 players. Let's assume Suzuki signs long term deals like Svechnikov and Couturier today @ $7.75M × 8 years... that takes that number to $72.75M. So that leaves ~$8.75M (assuming flat cap which is what one has to assume when they are thinking about this current season) to reach the minimum roster of 20 players with Evans, Romanov, Lehkonen and Chiarot as notable players to resign / replace not to mention. That leaves an average of only ~$2.1875M / player... $1.25M if they go with a 23 man roster. So it's very clear the money will have to come from somewhere. Byron will be 33 and a bottom 6 Forward making $3.4M. Lehkonen will be in danger of being replaced by cheaper prospects on ELC's. Drouin is an option to trade as well but of the three players his upside is vastly greater. Of all 3 players Byron has already been waived multiple times and went unclaimed.

3. Why are you comparing Perry's contract to Byron's? The comparison I made is Perry to Perreault... and yeah last year Byron found himself as the 13th forward several times as evidenced by the scratches and times placed on waivers so your argument holds no merrit. Yeah it sucks to pay a guy $3.4M when he isn't an NHL regular, but that's the reality of Paul Byron right now. If he was a UFA he would be making $950k like Perreault, his contract does not dictate his spot in the lineup... he has to earn it like everyone else, and Paul Byron knows this. It doesn't make him any less of a leader... I think you're putting too much weight into who wears the A.

At the end of the day there's gonna be an injury... when has there ever been an 82 game season without injuries? Every player is gonna get there chance to prove they deserve a spot... I wouldn't worry about it. Trade Lehkonen for a 3rd or 4th if it makes you feel better... I think there's nothing wrong with keeping him.

Having too many wingers will make sense if MB is able to make a big trade. Instead of having 4 TOP 6 wingers, we currently have 6 of them . So the question is : currently, who are the habs that qualify as real TOP 6 wingers and that would have the highest value in a trade ??? . Probably Toffoli and Caufield have the highest value. Then it's Anderson and Hoffman. Then Drouin and Gallagher (Gally's on a bad contract).

So having all these top 6 wingers would allow for example MB to trade Toffoli + a 1st and maybe get what we need most, a top 6 centerman. Too often a trade is made , you plug a hole but a new one is created. With what we have we can trade 2 wingers and still be ok

Anyway, that's the only way i can make sense of the Hoffman signing, because there truly are too many wingers currently and could be a problem if no trade is made!

All but 1 of Toffoli's Multi Goal nights including his Hat Trick in Vancouver were playing with Drouin
After Drouin left and Caufield came in he became the Goal Scorer as did Suzuki while Toffoli's Assists went up

Hoffman-Suzuki-Caufield (keep the Duo together and give them a sniper who creates good 2nd chances)
Drouin-KK-Toffoli (Drouin will support KK with Faceoffs while being the set up man for Toffoli while KK set's up in Gallagher shop just outside the Crease)
Anderson-Evans-Gallagher (Evans is the best Faceoffs Center & solid defensive center to support 2 players who check hard and often who can score goals )
Perrault-Poehling-Armia
Paquette
Lehkonen(He's playing for his career they gave him 1 last shot with a 1 year deal its most likely he'll be moved at the TDL for a mid round draft pick )

I agree partially to the Hoffman sentiment. I feel it applies to any of the recently signed forwards though. Hoffman, Lehkonen, Armia, etc. This is exactly my point of the AGM. Too many quality fwds, not enough time to go around for everyone.

1) I dunno this was pretty damning "Byron is now another year older and coming off of another surgery. I like Byron, he scored some big goals in the playoffs but he is no longer a consistent player." - I think he is better still than you give credit for. However still overpaid and thats the problem im getting at. Of course he's going to have to fight for his spot, every player will. Knowing his character and ability I think he does. Which then pushes a player like Lehkonen most likely off the roster. Once again, not ideal. These are both NHL calibre players.

2) Not sure where your getting your numbers from but just created an AGM to see for myself, they're dangerously close to the cap ceiling with just resigning RFA and letting all UFA's go..... Yes trade are an option but Byron will command a sweetener to move, Drouin is a mystery until we seem him play, Lehkonen is the only option that makes sense IMO. Hence my AGM. My only goal was to be proactive and get this done this year, so no player sits too much, rather than next year when the player we'd want to move will probably only play half the games and have to sit because of the overcrowding on wing right now.

3) If you think Byron was on waivers because he wasn't good, then you missed the entire point of why it was done in the first place. Byron on waivers was only done for cap reasons. The same way Price was dangled to expansion, Habs knew neither Byron nor Price would be taken so the used both scenarios to keep additional players safe. These were calculated risks. As for comparing Perry to Byron, I guess my point flew over your head? One guy makes league min for 1 year, one guy makes 3.4M for 2 years. One of those players is ideal to have as a 13th forward. The other isn't. That was only point I was making. As for Lehkonen, he was scratched in the regular season and playoffs at times which undoubtedly decreased his value prior to scoring a cup final clinching goal. I would prefer the kind of guys that get scratched and deployed like Lehkonen be making 800K like Perreault and Paquette. Hence why having too many high priced bottom six players that one of them has to sit, is not ideal IMO.

My arguments have merit and saying otherwise is odd. You can however disagree, which also has merit. There are no wrong answers here. Just opinions.

I don't think MB will trade any of our top 6 wingers. Caulfield, Gallagher, Toffoli, Hoffman, Anderson.... thats five actually. Drouin is the logical player to move out but right now before he plays a game, is untradeable. Need to see how he comes back first before teams will be willing to trade for him.

Yeah sure the lines can be a variety of different options. Just remember, Byron comes back by December. At that point we could have almost 6M sitting in the press box in two wingers. Barring injuries of course.

Me personally, I think the play here would be to move Lehkonen now for a equally valuable RHD. Move Romanov back to his proper left side and give him a better partner than Kulak.

1. "... he will have to fight for his spot and that's OK."
is the part you left out there, is anything I said not factual? Did he not age this year? Did he not just have another surgery? Would you argue he is still a sonsitent player? For what it's worth I agree with your summary of each player's situation I just disagree with the idea that MTL has too many wingers (because there will be injuries, with Byron's surgery there already is an injury which is likely why Perrault was signed). I agree we shouldn't trade Byron as a cap dump, he still provides value to MTL.

2. See I believe bergevin was already proactive in acquiring wingers for depth this offseason. Again, I believe MTL will go with a young C group so we want to have good wingers to insulate them. Drouin isn't tradeable at this point, his value can only go up... like you said. There is no reason to trade Lehkonen for a 3rd or a 4th round pick at this stage. Byron will be out until the new year... so why are we even thinking about making a spot for him right now when there will likely be other injuries before he returns? When he comes back he can go to Laval from a conditioning stint and MTL can make a decision at that time if they want... by then they will know what they have in Drouin, they already know what they have in Lehkonen, but they can also see how Perrault or Paquette (Does Poehling make the team) fit in. There is no need to make a move right now IMO, if they can work something out to add a defenseman sure but Lehkonen is the only player above that would carry any value in a trade and it wouldn't be much.

3. You're arguing Byron can't be the 13th forward because he makes $3.4M. I'm arguing that if there are 12 better forwards than him next year then they will be playing over him, it's as simple as that. Perry was signed to be a depth forward for MTL... Byron was extended to be a good role player 3 years ago. Unfortunately injuries and age have decreased Byron's effectiveness... I'm not saying he isn't a good player, merely that there are at least 11 better players on the habs so that puts Byron in competition with Lehkonen, Perreault, and Paquette.... and all 3 of those players are currently cheaper and/or younger than Byron. Byron hasn't been healthy for three years since signing that extension... it's just the way it works out sometimes.

Of course your arguments have merit, I was only referring to your argument that Byron can't be the 13th forward because he makes $3.4M. Byron was the 13th forward several times last season... it doesn't matter that is was for cap reasons, because the reality is Byron is not worth his contract so it works against him.

I literally said: "Of course he's going to have to fight for his spot, every player will.". Just didn't directly quote you on it.

I mentioned in a different comment, I should have rephrased my title/stance, Habs have too many *quality wingers. (This is a good problem - so we're nitpicking here) Perreault and Paquette are decent enough players to be consistent NHL'ers/ Same goes for Byron and Lehkonen. Unfortunately there is only so many spots available and only so many injuries that usually happen at one time. Frolik was brought in as the perfect 14th forward. He ended up only playing out of respect near the ends and the fact that he hadn't played all year just about. Everyone knew ahead of time that the odds of him getting into meaningful action was virtually zero. Can the same be said about the other 4? if they all made 900K, than I wouldn't care as much but the fact that there could be a scenario where 6M is left sitting in the press box doesn't seem like smart thing to do. There is a possibility that Perreault and Paquette get into the lineup over Byron and Lehkonen..... IMHO Byron and Lehkonen sitting for the second half the year (On and off with injuries), is not ideal. That's all i'm saying.

I will retract one thing for sure, I was rather bullish on having to make a move before the start of the season. There is no NEED to do this, I was merely trying to be proactive now rather than wait till Byron's back and lets say everyone's healthy and 3/4 guys have barely played this year. My reasoning is if you wait till Byrons back and, fingers crossed, the forward group stayed relatively healthy, the odd man out will have played barely any games for the club at that point so his value will be lower and maybe untradeable. If that player is Paquette, who cares, big woop. He was signed to 900K for 1 year. Waive him, etc.. If that player happens to be Lehkonen or Byron once he returns, then this could have been mitigated and that cap better used. Also keep in mind that if one player is moved out, like Lehkonen for example, it doesn't necessarily mean I want it to be for a draft pick. It could be used to strengthen a different area on the team. Dmen for example. Habs clearly have amazing depth on the wing now, but losing Weber means the d-core is undoubtedly worse than last year. That seems like a logical exchange. Our excess to strengthen our weakness.

The one thing I absolutely disagree with you is having Byron as a 13th forward is fine. That's wasted cap IMO, especially when the player is good enough to get into the lineup and odds are he will based on his track record with the team and standing in the dressing room being an assistant. So the more likely player to sit once/if everyone is healthy is Lehkonen who sat more often than Byron did in the playoffs this past year. Remember Byron only sat in the regular season for cap reasons. They literally had to choose someone making more than 1.2M and Lehkonen was surely to be picked on waivers since he was cheaper and younger. Byron was a tactical choice because he's just too expensive to take for free.

So in all, yeah the Habs could do nothing and just bank on the depth, that's an option for sure. I prefer to be more proactive about it and that's my prerogative. Use the extra unneeded depth to help other areas where there is clearly a need. That way less money is sitting in the press box and the players coming in for injured roster players, are more cost efficient. i;e Perreault, Paquette, AHL'er, etc (Less 1M)

I feel like we are arguing semantics at this point, we both know Byron has has fight for his spot but you accused me of writing him off. In general I agree with you.

But to comment on the one thing you disagree on me with (Byron as the 13th forward is fine), I don't think it's fine to pay someone $3.4M to be the 13th forward... but given the situation MTL is in I don't think they have a choice. If Byron earns his spot in the lineup great, if he doesn't oh well... just pretend whoever potentially replaces him (Perreault, Paquette, etc.) is making $3.4M and Byron is making $950k if it makes you feel better... it really is no different who plays or who is scratched at the end of the day MTL is paying Byron $3.4M and the other guys contracts are neglible because they could be buried in the minors for no cap hit.

The cap is not an issue right now for MTL as there are currently no free agents left that need big money. If you want to trade a Winger in a package for a top 4RD then I'm game but I doubt there are any top 4 RD's available for trade 1 month before the season starts. This can be revisisted at the TDL or this summer and by then MTL will know more about their roster and if there are any injuries or not.

So yes it could be said there are too many wingers on this team but is it a problem? I would say no.