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Forums/Armchair-GM

Actual values according to me

Created by: csick
Team: 2021-22 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 16, 2022
Published: Feb. 16, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Not necessarily those teams
Trades
1.
MTL
    Maybe a 4th
    2.
    MTL
      I’d be shocked if anyone want him
      3.
      MTL
        6 or 7th
        4.
        MTL
          No one wants him. They’d have to pay for someone to take them
          5.
          MTL
          1. Moore, John
          2. 2022 1st round pick (BOS)
          Additional Details:
          Best case scenario they get a 1st round pick but they have to take a bad contract back. I don’t believe what Friedman says
          6.
          MTL
          1. Bowers, Shane
          2. 2023 2nd round pick (COL)
          COL
          1. Lehkonen, Artturi
          Additional Details:
          This is what Lehkonen is worth. His offence isn’t good enough to get a 1st round pick back
          7.
          MTL
            I’d be shocked if anyone wants him for positive assets without sending significant cap back. If Montreal was willing to retain 2 million, he might get a 2nd and a B- prospect
            Buyouts
            DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
            2022
            Logo of the CGY
            Logo of the CAR
            Logo of the BOS
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the ANA
            Logo of the CAR
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the TBL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the STL
            2023
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the COL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the CGY
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            2024
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            Logo of the MTL
            ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
            19$81,500,000$62,648,308$597,561$1,675,000$18,851,692
            Left WingCentreRight Wing
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $4,500,000$4,500,000
            LW
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $950,000$950,000
            C, LW, RW
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $6,500,000$6,500,000
            RW, LW
            M-NTC, NMC
            UFA - 6
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $917,831$917,831
            LW, RW
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$537,500$538K)
            C
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $5,500,000$5,500,000
            RW, LW
            M-NTC
            UFA - 6
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            LW, RW
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            C, LW
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
            LW, RW
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            C
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            C
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
            $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$200,000$200K)
            C
            RFA - 1
            Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $10,500,000$10,500,000
            G
            NMC
            UFA - 5
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$637,500$638K)
            LD
            RFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            G
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $761,250$761,250
            LD/RD
            RFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            G
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            LD/RD
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Boston Bruins
            $2,750,000$2,750,000
            LD
            UFA - 2
            ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $5,500,000$5,500,000
            LW, RW
            M-NTC
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $7,857,143$7,857,143
            RD
            UFA - 5
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $4,450,000$4,450,000
            C
            UFA - 4
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $875,000$875,000
            LD/RD
            M-NTC
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $3,500,000$3,500,000
            RD
            UFA - 4
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $2,875,000$2,875,000
            G
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $950,000$950,000
            LW, RW, C
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
            $750,000$750,000
            G
            UFA - 1

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            Feb. 16, 2022 at 5:27 p.m.
            #51
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            Joined: May 2015
            Posts: 19,595
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            Quoting: mokumboi
            1- There's no such thing as sourced reports about impending trades? Eh? And I'm not doing any CF anything. In fact, that's precisely what I'm debating against. Yet again.

            2- Heh. Mmmnokay.

            3- It's my opinion that what teams want to ask for and what they can actually get are often two different things? I fail to see how that's anything more than a Captain Obvious ice cold take. As for my contention that Chiarot is not worth a 1st, gosh, I'll guess we'll find out for sure soon enough.

            4- Oh good heavens. I have all the credibility required to spot a THW-level non-report, especially when the same one gets parroted ad nauseum. Don't you?

            5- You literally stated that "teams say they want him". Verbatim. I simple asked where you got this from, with the proviso that is should be a legit source. Do you have an actual answer to that perfectly reasonable request to back up your statement of fact or not? You can't keep saying things as if they're facts and then deflect to ridicule the other guy every time someone asks for a source for your claim.


            Ok first off you need to chill. I don't know what tone you think Im commenting in but it sure isn't the one your replying to me in.

            As for the sources, have you not heard from any of the Lebruns, Dregers, Seravalli's, Freidmans, etc etc etc statements/reports/comments on various hockey shows? Do I really need to get links to them? Simple google search would suffice.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 5:33 p.m.
            #52
            mokumboi
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            Joined: Apr. 2019
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            Quoting: F50marco
            Ok first off you need to chill. I don't know what tone you think Im commenting in but it sure isn't the one your replying to me in.

            As for the sources, have you not heard from any of the Lebruns, Dregers, Seravalli's, Freidmans, etc etc etc statements/reports/comments on various hockey shows? Do I really need to get links to them? Simple google search would suffice.


            What are you on about? I'm as chill as can be. This is all quite humorous to me and I am not saying anything unreasonable or angry. You're just deflecting again.

            If there are so many legit reports out there saying what you claim they are saying, surely you can manage to share one that says what you claim it says. The burden of proof lies with the claimant, dudely. Again, this is nothing out of order.

            But frankly, I'm just gonna step out of this conversation now because I'm detecting an implied threat from you and I want less than zero part of it. So whatever, I said what I said, you don't seem to be interested in backing claims made, have a good one.
            TJTwolf liked this.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 5:34 p.m.
            #53
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            Joined: May 2015
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            Likes: 6,735
            Quoting: mokumboi
            What are you on about? I'm as chill as can be. This is all quite humorous to me and I am not saying anything unreasonable or angry. You're just deflecting again.

            If there are so many legit reports out there saying what you claim they are saying, surely you can manage to share one that says what you claim it says. The burden of proof lies with the claimant, dudely. Again, this is nothing out of order.

            But frankly, I'm just gonna step out of this conversation now because I'm detecting an implied threat from you and I want less than zero part of it. So whatever, I said what I said, you don't seem to be interested in backing claims made, have a good one.


            Wow..... Ok have a good one. cheers
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 5:39 p.m.
            #54
            Go Habs Go
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            Joined: Mar. 2017
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            Likes: 4,091
            Quoting: CD282
            You were talking about "playoff types", I'm pointing out that Chiarot wasn't great in the playoffs either. That should have been self-evident.


            We were talking about the mercurial idea that GMs have in their heads concerning the value of players with physicality in the playoffs ("playoff types") not actual playoff stats.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 5:49 p.m.
            #55
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            Joined: Jan. 2020
            Posts: 279
            Likes: 169
            Just wanted to say that as a Habs fan I agree with these returns you created here.

            Good job csick!

            Also just wanted to state that the reason why everyone seems to agree that Chiarot gets a 1st is because the Habs will retain half of his salary which puts him at a cap hit of $1.75M which is a cap that almost every cup contender can squeeze into their budget.
            csick and TJTwolf liked this.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 10:13 p.m.
            #56
            CapMean
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            Quoting: RaZZe
            Yeah, but Savard was also one of the only UFA dmen that moved (and was playing better than Chiarot is now). This year, there's about 15 UFA defensemen on the move plus players with term like Chychrun and even Sanheim and Provorov.

            Supply and demand, Chiarot is not the hot stuff on the market.


            What available UFA dmen are better than Chiarot? Giordano? He has a M-NTC and his cap hit is almost double Chiarot's. Klingberg? The price will be much higher for him than Chiarot.

            Chiarot is better than every other available UFA dman and the dmen with term are likely to be dealt in the offseason, since the cost will be much higher than rentals and they'll likely demand a roster player in return. I see very little sense in what you're saying...
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 10:22 p.m.
            #57
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            Quoting: CapMean
            What available UFA dmen are better than Chiarot? Giordano? He has a M-NTC and his cap hit is almost double Chiarot's. Klingberg? The price will be much higher for him than Chiarot.

            Chiarot is better than every other available UFA dman and the dmen with term are likely to be dealt in the offseason, since the cost will be much higher than rentals and they'll likely demand a roster player in return. I see very little sense in what you're saying...


            Chiarot has played like box of chicken nuggets, lmao. Out of the available defensemen, he isn't probably in the top10.

            My point still stands: Savard deal is not a good comparable and the asking price does not mean actual value. It's a buyer's market, if the Habs hold on to Chiarot for too long with their price demands, they might not be able to move him at all.
            CD282 liked this.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 10:46 p.m.
            #58
            CapMean
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            Quoting: RaZZe
            Chiarot has played like box of chicken nuggets, lmao. Out of the available defensemen, he isn't probably in the top10.

            My point still stands: Savard deal is not a good comparable and the asking price does not mean actual value. It's a buyer's market, if the Habs hold on to Chiarot for too long with their price demands, they might not be able to move him at all.


            Your point still doesn't make any sense and you're basically making stuff up. Give me your top 10 so I can have a good laugh.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 11:11 p.m.
            #59
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            Quoting: CapMean
            Your point still doesn't make any sense and you're basically making stuff up. Give me your top 10 so I can have a good laugh.


            I mean, my point was just basic economics, lmao😂

            I think you can find the top10 by yourself by just looking at basic stats or via the eye test wink
            You kinda haven't earned the authority to tell me to complete simple tasks for you.
            CD282 liked this.
            Feb. 16, 2022 at 11:27 p.m.
            #60
            CapMean
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            Quoting: RaZZe
            I mean, my point was just basic economics, lmao😂

            I think you can find the top10 by yourself by just looking at basic stats or via the eye test wink
            You kinda haven't earned the authority to tell me to complete simple tasks for you.


            The number of teams in line for Chiarot (or an equivalent) is greater than the number of available defensmen that meet or exceed Chiarot's calibre, therefore the demand is greater than the supply. How's that for basic economics?

            Why say something if you can't back it up? You're like a 4 year old making up little stories.

            Cool emojis though.
            Feb. 17, 2022 at 5:57 p.m.
            #61
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            Joined: Feb. 2021
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            Quoting: vr1995
            he was -6 on a cinderella playoff run that got his ass saved by carey price


            He played 25-30 minutes per game. He was on the ice for everything. David Gustafsson and John Merrill would be on for maybe 6-8 minutes. There was no third pairing. Find me the comparable for how the Habs ran the bench last year.
            Feb. 18, 2022 at 10:21 a.m.
            #62
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            Quoting: BobbyPSC
            He played 25-30 minutes per game. He was on the ice for everything. David Gustafsson and John Merrill would be on for maybe 6-8 minutes. There was no third pairing. Find me the comparable for how the Habs ran the bench last year.


            25-30 minutes a game doesnt matter when the team is bad,
            Feb. 19, 2022 at 12:23 p.m.
            #63
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            Quoting: vr1995
            25-30 minutes a game doesnt matter when the team is bad,


            LOL. What team are you talking about? The Canadiens lost in the Stanley Cup finals. He played 25+ minutes on that team. Killing penalties and clearing the front of the net (which i believe is where most goals are scored).

            I think this is what GMs refer to as a “playoff defenceman”
            Mar. 16, 2022 at 8:56 p.m.
            #64
            CapMean
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            Quoting: mokumboi
            1- There's no such thing as sourced reports about impending trades? Eh? And I'm not doing any CF anything. In fact, that's precisely what I'm debating against. Yet again.

            2- Heh. Mmmnokay.

            3- It's my opinion that what teams want to ask for and what they can actually get are often two different things? I fail to see how that's anything more than a Captain Obvious ice cold take. As for my contention that Chiarot is not worth a 1st, gosh, I'll guess we'll find out for sure soon enough.

            4- Oh good heavens. I have all the credibility required to spot a THW-level non-report, especially when the same one gets parroted ad nauseum. Don't you?

            5- You literally stated that "teams say they want him". Verbatim. I simple asked where you got this from, with the proviso that is should be a legit source. Do you have an actual answer to that perfectly reasonable request to back up your statement of fact or not? You can't keep saying things as if they're facts and then deflect to ridicule the other guy every time someone asks for a source for your claim.


            I guess we just found out for sure bro
            Mar. 17, 2022 at 9:18 a.m.
            #65
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            Quoting: CapMean
            Just here to remind you how little you know about hockey. Time to pick a new sport, bauds!


            LOL florida overpayed for a bottom pairing D
            csick liked this.
            Mar. 17, 2022 at 11:08 a.m.
            #66
            CapMean
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            Quoting: vr1995
            LOL florida overpayed for a bottom pairing D


            Bottom pairing D on a Cup contender, yes. As if Savard wasn't a bottom pairing D on the Lightning... you'll catch up eventually.
            Mar. 17, 2022 at 11:18 a.m.
            #67
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            Quoting: CapMean
            Bottom pairing D on a Cup contender, yes. As if Savard wasn't a bottom pairing D on the Lightning... you'll catch up eventually.


            hes a bottom pairing d and it was a massive overpay, good for the habs they fleeced florida, doesnt change the fact he isnt good lol
            csick liked this.
            Mar. 17, 2022 at 11:27 a.m.
            #68
            CapMean
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            Quoting: vr1995
            hes a bottom pairing d and it was a massive overpay, good for the habs they fleeced florida, doesnt change the fact he isnt good lol


            Doesn't change the fact you don't understand the market
            Mar. 17, 2022 at 11:31 a.m.
            #69
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            Quoting: CapMean
            Doesn't change the fact you don't understand the market


            I can't help the fact the Florida GM screwed the pooch when he saw Manson who is way better go for less.
             
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