Detroit declines, don't need more AHL players.

Wings not a dumping ground for your not needed players

Detroit is past the cap dump accrual stage of the rebuild. Pass.

Kings are not giving up those kind of assets for someone who play third line minutes

Ottawa adds for dumping players or no deal to wings

What do you mean "those kind of assets"?

2023 3rd round pick (PIT) : a 3rd is a 3rd, really does nothing for Ottawa at this stage

Anderson-Dolan turns 23 y/o and has 12 pts in 50 NHL games. Sens have zero need for him too

Matt Roy is the only interesting piece here but it depends if the Sens think he could be Thomas Chabot's Methot. If not, he is not needed as they have Zub, Thomson, JBD, Hamonic (stop gap) and Zaitsev (stuck with him). Brannstrom and Holden can play RD too.

Also, Connor Brown is really not a guy "who play third line minutes". He has been in Ottawa for 3 seasons now and has paced for 50+ pts in each season while being the most utilized forward overall. He is used in all situations and almost 90% of his production comes at ES or PK. He is like a Danault from the Wing so you should understand how valuable that type of player is.

Why the pick swap on the first trade? Seems unnecessary - Ottawa doesn't need the pick really - they need the players .

If you are Claude Giroux, never won a Cup and have 1 of maybe 2 more years of playing to go. You probably want to win one. With $80M in earnings, you probably don't need a specific amount. You want to win. So naturally, you go home to a struggling franchise in a smaller market that is hoping to make the playoffs?

Unless Fiala asks to got to Ottawa, I can't see them trading him. He is a good player and Minnesota needs more that just Kirill. But 2 good prospects and a 7th overall should get it done.

We aren't trading our #2 RD who might be Ottawa's #1 RD opposite Chabot for a middle-6 forward, no matter how good Brown has been with the Senators.

Connor Brown is NOT a middle-6 forward though

There's a life after Toronto lol

He's either an elite 3rd liner or a 2nd liner, depending how you use him.

Also, don't think Matt Roy is better than Zub but that doesn't mean he wouldn't play with Chabot as you need someone to play with 19 y/o Jake Sanderson too.

Minnesota declines. Take out the 1st round pick from wild side and d prospect from your side Minnesota has no need for

"Connor Brown is NOT a middle-6 forward."

"He's either an elite 3rd liner or a 2nd liner, depending how you use him."

What is your definition of a middle-6 forward, if not a forward that plays on the 2nd or 3rd lines?

Yes and I think the Sens would rather have Thomson than a late 1st anyway



Technically you're not wrong but "middle-6 forward" would be selling Brown really SHORT.

Technically again, this season, Brown was 139th in PPG among forwards who played at least 41 games.

32 teams x 3 first liners : 96 Top line forwards
32 teams x 6 Top-6 forwards : 192 Top-6 forwards

So, in terms of production, Brown was an average 2nd liner, statistically.

77% of his points were at ES+PK because he is used more in defensive situations (like PK) than offensive situations (like PP)

He was 96th in 2020-21 in PPG among forwards who played at least 41 games (89% of his points were at ES+PK). He was 118th in 2019-20 (91% of his points were at ES+PK)

He's a 3rd liner in the sense that Phillip Danault was a 3rd line center. But statistically he is a 2nd liner, just deployed more like 3rd liners are.

Hopefully it's more clear.

"Technically you're not wrong" is a kind of weaselly way to say "You're right." You spent a lot of time and energy providing statistics that prove that Connor Brown is, indeed, a middle 6 forward, i.e., a guy who plays on the second or third lines. My point in characterizing him as such is that a middle-6 forward is the equivalent of a first- or second-pairing defenseman, which Roy indisputably is, and therefore Los Angeles wouldn't be interested in exchanging the two because that's essentially a no-net deal for the Kings. Brown is an excellent player but doesn't fit our primary need, which is Roy's equivalent at LD.

Technically YES because any player playing on a 2nd or 3rd line are "middle 6 forwards".

BUT, there is some very good players who play on their team's second lines... Do you know what that means?

It simply means that the term "middle 6 forward" can be selling these players really short.

Stutzle and Batherson were on the Sens 2nd line most of the season... I wouldn't call them "middle 6 forwards"

Vladislav Namestnikov was a "middle 6 forward" a few years ago. Connor is substantially MORE than that.

More clear?



I'm not arguing any of that

So based on your description, he's a typical middle-six forward then. I think you'd agree that any team that is playing him on their first line has some talent issues. It's not meant as a criticism. There's a lot of really good middle-six forwards in the league. Justin Williams was a middle-six forward, and he won a Conn Smythe.

As for your Danault comparison, I would also consider Danault to be a middle six forward, even though you could argue he was the Kings 1C this year.

Read post #14, hope it's a bit more clear. It's more that this term doesn't give full justice to players like Brown and Danault.

Connor Brown has the most TOI/GP since he came to Ottawa in 2019-20 but has not been played on the "first line" much. Mostly when there was holes and injuries as it's a team that was rebuilding. He played on Stutzle's line a lot this season because of injuries. The thing is that's not where he'll shine the most (Top-6 role). He's a matchup forward

Only Jay Beagle has more SH TOI/GP than Brown since 2019-20. Brown is also a coach's pet, used in all situations, particularly in defensive matchups against the other team's best lines. Him producing at 50 pts paces despite the roles he has had is what makes him very valuable.

I wouldn't consider Brown (28 years old, 0.6 ppg and one year left on his contract) as anywhere near comparable to Batherson (24 years old, 1 ppg in his abbreviated service due to injury, and signed for 5 more years) or Stutzle (20 years old, potential All-Star and under team control for at least 6 more years), which just makes my point about Brown. And the fact that Namestnikov was a middle 6 forward doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with whether Brown is a middle-6 forward.

You just seem to have a reflexive antipathy to having one of your players referred to as a middle-6 forward. Arizona and Buffalo, for example, would KILL to have Connor Brown. Los Angeles, not so much.

So I'm not sure what the argument here is then. I think the original comment was that the Kings don't want to give up valuable pieces for a "middle-six forward," which I'd agree with. LA's immediate needs are a top line winger and a 1LD, neither of which Brown would fit. JAD could certainly be available for lesser pieces, but Matt Roy isn't getting moved unless it's for an upgrade at top-line winger and or 1LD.

It's just that there is multiple ways to build a team and players are not all equal, even if they have similar stats. They also play vastly different roles. You have to consider your TEAM NEEDS before making a choice between 2 players.

For example, who do you think a team would take? 50 pts Connor Brown or 60 pts Mike Hoffman?

Hoffman has a very high skill level and had one of the best shots in the league, but some teams would prefer Connor depending on the current make up of their team (not talking about current Hoffman here)

In terms of ice-time and production, Connor Brown has NOT been a middle-six forward for the last 3 years. He has been a Top-6 forward (a LOT of top-6 forwards around the league produce around a 50 pts pace, and also get less TOI). But that is also NOT his regular role when everyone is healthy

I know it isn't clear... but it's similar to Phil Danault who is also MUCH MORE than a middle six forward, but not a pure Top-6 forward as well. They are high end 2-way shutdown forwards. Danault is even more valuable because he is a Center and even better 2-way (look at Selke votes)

Hopefully it's more clear! It's just the way the term is used.




Understand all this, never argued about it though. It was strictly about the "middle-six forward" term regarding Connor Brown.




No. Read the post above I guess.

I don't mind AT ALL when the RIGHT players are called what they are. Formenton is a "middle six forward" so far. Nick Paul was. Colin White is too, however I refer him more as a 3rd line player. Mathieu Joseph looks like he will also be a "middle six forward"

I am not a high school teenage girl, I am not that emotionally attached to all of this. I am a very very rational person (maybe to a fault at times). I absolutely want and NEED to call a spade a spade.