The unproven Robertson, the B prospect and the second cover the $7 million in retention. Gibson is worth more than a first.

He was an all star when he signed it lmao. Then he was one of their leading point producers for back to back conference finals. But you think Jake Muzzin has done more for the leafs on his contract? Get real.

The first 3 aren't typical cap dumps but you are correct, JK would have taken McDonagh for free but not for any assets (TB didn't have to move him this year but it would have helped retain guys they wanted, and perhaps been more important next year). That being said it doesn't mean there won't be a hockey trade that involves Kerfoot for example (don't think the other two fit the teams make up). There are some people who say, we don't need a middle 6 player in CBJ for example, but a lot of people will say we aren't taking a cap dump or something along the lines as if they are negative assets or tie down the team. Toronto doesn't need to actually move any of the 3 for cap space to be cap compliant, not this year nor the next, so technically at the moment they aren't cap dumps at all.

My criticism is not of people who say X player isn't a fit/doesn't fill a need, or it wouldn't make sense for us to get a rental (at this point), or that trade is lopsided or doesn't do anything for the team; rather, it's the fans that are fixated on weaponizing cap space and also assuming that their team is going to be a rebuilder until their prospects come into their own, and the fans who think that GMs won't trade for 1 and 2-year rentals unless they are a top contender. Basically, people who take cap and asset management to an unrealistic extreme.

I get that. I suppose it's just odd that this conversation came up off a CBJ proposal since there really aren't any reasonable people arguing from the CBJ end that they should be looking to weaponize cap space. Some of us will throw out the "not interested in cap dumps" line to troll a bit, but after so many repeated proposals that make no sense for Columbus it feels like people are just trolling the CBJ at this point too.

take your foot off the gas with this persecution complex dude, no one is saying Kerfoot sucks here, just that it doesn't make sense for the Jackets to spend picks to acquire a guy who doesn't fit their timeline for contention. When you look at the forwards they have signed for next year it's either dudes that he's not good enough to push out of their lineup spot (Laine/Voracek), guys that are team leaders (Jenner/Nyquist/Bjorkstrand), or they're young guys that you want to give the ice time to (Texier/Johnson/Marchenko/Sillinger/Chinakhov). Sure, he's better than the 4th line guys they've got (Kuraly/Danforth/Robinson/Gaunce) but would *you* give up a 2nd rounder to pay $3.5M to a 4th liner?

There might be some tone to it, but you gotta read the substance of what every CBJ fans says to ACGMs trading Kerfoot to us:

- Kerfoot is...fine.
- Kerfoot would not be playing in a high-level offensive system with CBJ. So the relatively good year he had last year, a career year for him (note his GSVA the three prior years), would likely not be the norm for him were he to play with CBJ, SEA, AZ, etc.
- We have a number of young Fs who need NHL playing time, and he would just be an impediment to that. As would any player like him. If CBJ are obtaining Fs in trade right now, they are going to be young, with years of control, and already/ developing into top-line players.
- He is a fine value at $3.5M. He is not a fine value as soon-to-be 28 year old UFA likely expecting a pay-raise.
- Finally, there are tons, and tons, and tons of TOR ACGMs that trade him to CBJ. Authors are repeatedly told "No, we do not want him, please stop trading him to us" only to get tons and tons more, without any change in circumstance or logic. You need two yes' for a trade to be done.

That final point likely illustrates why you see a lot of irritation with TOR ACGMs, at least from CBJ fans.

That being said, the thing is, though, most of the hate for TOR I see comes from TOR fans.

Ya'll have a great team, and as a fan of another team ridiculed for its seeming inability to get out of the 1st round of the playoffs, I get it; but, every time you lose we get a flood of ACGMs trying to dump every player not named Matthews.

Plus, I mean...

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about about CBJ in particular, the reason this started though was because a lot of the time people are refusing other teams players because they assume they have no value just because the fans of that team are putting them in mock trade. So that's kind of why I asked that question, because I see a general trend even though it's often with Leafs' players but people are assuming that guys with a 1-yr deal or 2-yr deals are going to be rentals (and even if they are) they assume they have no value and similarly players who are 28+.

Another trend that kind of irks me as well is valuing players who had break out years way above their counterparts that might have had less point totals last year but a much better track record. Particularly, Matthew Tkachuk, JT Miller, and Fiala. I feel like that Fiala trade brought back a lot of people to earth on their expectations on certain players. That DeBrincat trade though rely shook CHI fans after their GM was reportedly asking for a ridiculous price, but yeah DeBrincat has a pretty good track record so I guess we see how much player control matters in the current market.

Lol, if you look at his ratings most of the rival teams had high votes for Toronto. He did the adjusted for fan base size but naturally a lot of Canadian team fans are going to be against the Leafs because they have to hear about them a ton, which makes their fans more annoying too.

The unhinged one though is pretty accurate the way they run out defenders and goalies out of town, the most delusional fanbase though is the Oilers imo, since they often see their good players as superstars even before they had any. I think some even thought Ryan Smyth was better than Mats Sundin for example.

I get that. And Kerfoot doesn't suck. He likely has value to a number of teams out there. CBJ just aren't one of them. Kerfoot's value as a player is like, #3 on the list of reasons he isn't a fit for CBJ.

Frustratingly, we have to keep reminding every other ACGM trading Kerfoot to us of that.

I get the frustration, I'm learning to just ignore the ones that are just way out there or just repeated. At least we are done with Mrazek. Now, there's just Miller, Kerfoot, and Holl to get traded or resign.

Similar to seeing the "Muzzin to NYI" ACGMs somehow still popping up the day after they traded for their presumed LD2 in Romanov. Alas, it truly is part of the atmosphere around here - one day Jake Muzzin's contract will run out and we'll all miss the days of saying "you know he has a full NTC right?"

He can play centre as well

It wouldn't matter if Muzzin won two Norris's you'd say he sucks. You guys are so so transparent

Yup everyone is better

Then who does he push out from Roslovic, Jenner and Sillinger? Kuraly is cemented as 4th line C.

I’m pretty pale but I wouldn’t say I’m transparent. Also Muzzin hasn’t won two Norris’s and happens to be injury prone lmao. You are way off base bro.

Yup everyone is better

Pelech has missed more time more consistently than Muzzin has over his career. All leaf players are overrated cap dumps.

Pelech is a significantly better player than Muzzin. With the exception of his injury in 2020 which led to the Andy Greene trade he’s been healthy. Trotz was just ****ing scratching him lmao.

https://theathletic.com/1507245/2020/01/03/islanders-lose-adam-pelech-to-freak-warmup-injury-now-what/?amp=1

Last time Pelech was hurt Johnny Boychuk was still playing. You may want to reconsider your last statement.

If you're not gonna make a case for the guy over anyone then don't ree when people say he doesn't fit into a lineup.

We don't hate the Leafs. We just hate the Leafs fans who, despite ONE THOUSAND DAYS of "no, we don't want him" to any and all Kerfoot-to-the-Jackets proposals for a variety of reasons that have been regularly repeated and explained, still keep making them. We especially can't stand the ones who decide that this is because of a persecution complex against the leafs. Nope. It's because of THREE YEARS of refusing to take the damn hint already.

Seriously. Y'all hold the damn record for unwelcome Jackets trade proposals at this point with Kerfoot alone. We don't want him. We will never want him. He has never fit our timeline and he never will. He has never been a justifiable upgrade to our roster for the price and he never will be. Cut it out already. You've had THREE FULL YEARS to learn this. There are no longer any permissible excuses.

dude do like, ten seconds of research before you say things that make you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

Pelech's last 5 years:
2017-18: 78/82 GP
2018-19: 78/82 GP in the regular season, 8/8 GP in the playoffs.
2019-20: 38/68 GP in the regular season (the freak injury described above), 21/22 GP in the playoffs
2020-21: 56/56 GP in the reg, 19/19 GP in the playoffs
2021-22: 78/82 GP

Jake Muzzin the last 5 years:
2017-18: 74/82 GP, 2/4 playoff GP
2018-19: 80/82 GP, 7/7 playoff GP
2019-20: 53/70 GP, 2/5 playoff GP
2020-21: 53/56 GP, 6/7 playoff GP
2021-22: 47/82 GP, 7/7 playoff GP

So Pelech's played 328 out of a possible 370 GP in the last 5 years, and 48 of the 49 playoff games the Isles played. Muzzin has played 307 out of 372 games and 22 out of 26 possible playoff games. Remind me again who's more injury prone though?



Hilarious that the same guy who spent half the day yesterday arguing that Semyon Varlamov is an overpaid backup that Toronto wouldn't take for free is now upset when Jackets fans are telling him that they don't want to give up a 2nd rounder for Alex Kerfoot. The truest, most base form of being able to dish it out but not being able to take it. Here's some free advice: close your eyes, take a couple deep breaths, and remind yourself that this is a message board for hockey fans to debate trades and signings and someone saying they wouldn't want to trade for Justin Holl is *not* a personal attack against you and the things you believe in.

Ah so it's a one way street. Pelech is not a leaf so he's amazing and not injury prone

They are all better players on the jackets