Barzal next season

Forums/Armchair-GM

Page 1 of 2

Created by: Ledge_And_Dairy

Team: 2023-24 Calgary Flames

Initial Creation Date: Aug. 15, 2022

Published: Aug. 16, 2022

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

***Disclaimer***

This trade is a purely hypothetical idea based on the Islander both missing the playoffs in 22/23 and that Barzal (like Tkachuk) says he will not sign a long term deal in in NYI in the offseason. It also assumes that one of the teams he is willing to sign a long term deal with is Calgary (closer to home and a competing team), thus the 2nd "sign & trade" in NHL history is conducted.

This is not meant to be taken too seriously as it is still very unlikely to happen. However I did attempt to make the trade "fair" despite the likely negative feedback I will get.
_________________________________________________________________

Breakdown of the trade (note that I am choosing a bit of a different direction than Calgary adding Huberdeau and Weegar, instead I am going for more of a futures package but also a more NHL ready futures package than just straight picks. I think Barzal's value is more in line with what DeBrincat or Eichel returned over what Tkachuk got).

- Coronato (I expect him to have a very good season in the NCAA this year keeping him as a top prospect in the league, I also think he signs his ELC at the end of the NCAA season and joins the Flames as a Black Ace for the playoffs)
- Dube (I think he will have a much better season in 22/23 and look like more of a surefire 40+ point power forward. I don't think his production last year correctly reflected his underlying numbers well. I am also assuming the allegations are lifted in this scenario)
- Vladar (Proven young and solid NHL backup for when Varly retires next season)
- 2024 1st (lotto or top 10 protected as is the standard now)

Free Agent Signings

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Barzal, Mathew	8	$9,000,000
Ruzicka, Adam	1	$850,000
Meloche, Nicolas	2	$900,000
Mackey, Connor	2	$950,000

UFA		YEARS	CAP HIT
Weegar, MacKenzie		7	$6,500,000
Lucic, Milan		1	$775,000

Trades

CGY

Gunler, Noel
2023 2nd round pick (CAR)

CAR

Kylington, Oliver

Additional Details:

Not quite sure what I would want in return but I wouldn't hate this

CGY

Leason, Brett

WSH

Välimäki, Juuso [RFA Rights]

Additional Details:

Trade takes place in 22/23. Players are swapped to avoid waivers for both sides while adding team needs

CGY

Barzal, Mathew [RFA Rights]
2025 3rd round pick (NYI)

Additional Details:

Trade takes place after the 2023 draft.

Pick conditions are the same as the Eichel trade

NYI

Coronato, Matthew [Reserve List]
Dubé, Dillon
Vladar, Daniel [RFA Rights]
2024 1st round pick (CGY)
2025 2nd round pick (CGY)

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2023
2024
2025

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$83,500,000	$73,769,999	$0	$15,000	$9,730,001

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Huberdeau, Jonathan $10,500,000$10,500,000 LW, RW NMC UFA - 8	Lindholm, Elias $4,850,000$4,850,000 C, RW UFA - 1	Mangiapane, Andrew $5,800,000$5,800,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 2
Pelletier, Jakob $863,333$863,333 LW RFA - 1	Barzal, Mathew $9,000,000$9,000,000 C, RW UFA - 8	Toffoli, Tyler $2,125,000$2,125,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Coleman, Blake $4,900,000$4,900,000 RW, LW NTC UFA - 4	Backlund, Mikael $5,350,000$5,350,000 C NMC UFA - 1	Schwindt, Cole $855,833$855,833 RW, C RFA - 1
Lucic, Milan $775,000$775,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Ruzicka, Adam $850,000$850,000 LW, C UFA - 1
		Leason, Brett $775,000$775,000 RW RFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Hanifin, Noah $1,237,500$1,237,500 LD M-NTC UFA - 1	Andersson, Rasmus $4,550,000$4,550,000 RD UFA - 3	Markström, Jacob $6,000,000$6,000,000 G NMC UFA - 3
Weegar, MacKenzie $6,500,000$6,500,000 LD/RD UFA - 8	Tanev, Christopher $1,125,000$1,125,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1	Wolf, Dustin $813,333$813,333 ($15,000$15K) G RFA - 1
Zadorov, Nikita $3,750,000$3,750,000 LD/RD UFA - 1	Meloche, Nicolas $900,000$900,000 RD UFA

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Rooney, Kevin $1,300,000$1,300,000 C UFA - 1
Mackey, Connor $950,000$950,000 LD UFA - 1

Aug. 16, 2022 at 9:30 a.m.

Warrior24

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 3,455

Likes: 1,624

Barzal is not going anywhere, watch his extension announced on Sept. 1st when Lou announces all his moves.

Additionally if the Isles are going to move Barzal a 1C has to be coming back in the trade which it is not here.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 9:35 a.m.

Alfie11

Joined: Aug. 2020

Posts: 9,527

Likes: 8,968

Quoting: Warrior24

don’t worry, Lou is gonna announce a Barzal trade and then announce the Kadri signing to replace him at 1C

Aug. 16, 2022 at 9:37 a.m.

Warrior24

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 3,455

Likes: 1,624

Quoting: Alfie11

don’t worry, Lou is gonna announce a Barzal trade and then announce the Kadri signing to replace him at 1C

I am not worried as the only player being moved to accommodate a Kadri signing would be Bailey and Barzal gets his 8 year $8.5M contract to be the Isles 1C for a long time.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 9:46 a.m.

Caniac555

Hurricane Waddell

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 8,734

Likes: 3,601

I think the Canes would be interested in something like this, but the way things have shaped up in their offseason, they are going to need to sort a ton of things out. This would be move 3 in the succession of 3 defenseman moves (Gardiner and Bear need to be figured out first).

Additionally, I think a 2nd & Gunler (a decent B+ type prospect) might be a bit rich as a return…but not too far off. Probably needs to be a 2024 2nd + maybe a different prospect.

InRodWeTrust liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 9:48 a.m.

Not_Isles5513

1GarthSnowFan

Joined: Dec. 2021

Posts: 11,744

Likes: 4,803

I think you would have to include Pelletier instead of Vlader, but outside of that I get what you are trying to do here.

I think the fact Lou added Romanov will keep Dobson and Sorokin happy which means NYI will have no trouble resigning Barzal. Even if they aren’t great next year the d core is fairly young and they have Raty and Dufour on the way up to provide a boost to the forward core. Holmstrom too but I’ve been really impressed by Raty and Dufour at the WJC.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:17 a.m.

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Warrior24

Did you by chance read the description with the emphasized Disclaimer?

Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:24 a.m.

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Isles5513

That would be far too expensive imo. I don't see any situation where Barzal returns an A tier prospect more than Eichel when it is under the same trade request conditions.

This post is not here to argue whether or not Lou can resign him. I stated in the description that this is not realistic but hypothetical where Matt does request a trade

Not_Isles5513 liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:27 a.m.

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Caniac555

I think he would be a good fit there, especially on his cap hit for their window. I get what you mean about a series of prior moves though. I probably wouldn't want a lesser return than this however

Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:29 a.m.

vikhodush

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 6,694

Likes: 3,362

Quoting: Caniac555

Me and Ledge went back and forth on this in another post and I suggested something like this. Figured it might be a bit rich but base package is there.

This would be next offseason tho so Gardiner will be gone and we can keep trade or just let Bear walk if cap is an issue. I think Kylington would be perfect with his style of play and can fill 3LD next year and then shift up to anchor second pair with Pesce when Skjei leaves (assuming we let Skjei go, he’s been great but I think we can lock Kylington in long term for cheaper than what Skjei will sign to).

InRodWeTrust liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:06 a.m.

#10

Warrior24

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 3,455

Likes: 1,624

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

Did you by chance read the description with the emphasized Disclaimer?

Yes, which is why I specifically said it will not happen because the Barzal extension will be announced in Sept.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:13 a.m.

#11

Not_Isles5513

1GarthSnowFan

Joined: Dec. 2021

Posts: 11,744

Likes: 4,803

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

I only mentioned the potential to keep him because I can’t emotionally handle the isles losing another center lmao.

Also the reason I suggested Pelletier is because there is no “Alex Tuch” level player heading to NY.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:27 a.m.

#12

Hockeypal

Joined: Jan. 2022

Posts: 1,978

Likes: 683

Pretty bad offer for Barzal ngl, I like Coronato but other than him and a first nothing really intrigues me at all. Dube is a solid 3rd liner but can’t see him being much of anything else, Vladar is a decent back up but they have Sorokin so Vladar isn’t really needed and a 2nd is a 2nd. Pelletier, Coronato, Dube, 1st and something else either Poirier/Kuznetsov or a 2nd. Is this an overpayment maybe but think of the offers Barzal will get ESPECIALLY if he comes with an extension if Calgary got Huberdeau, Weegar, a 1st and a decent spec in the AHL for Tkachuk who’s arguably worse than Huberdeau rn so if Tkachuk can get that Barzal can easily get that they’re similar in age and Barzal is a center they’re usually more valuable

Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:27 p.m.

#13

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Warrior24

Yes, which is why I specifically said it will not happen because the Barzal extension will be announced in Sept.

Well it hasn't been and there isn't a single hint that it will be so your more or less just sharing an opinion

Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:44 p.m.

#14

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Isles5513

I don't entirely agree with that. The premise here is that Dube actually scores at the pace his underlying numbers suggest he should. Lets use Tuch as the comparison here. At 5v5 Tuch had a GF/60 of 3.73, Dube had a 2.42. Tuch had an xGF/60 2.84, Dube had 2.85.

When I say Dube had abysmal puck luck for the majority of last year I'm likely understating how bad it was. In his first 65 games of the season Dube only had 22 points. It wasn't until his last 15 games or so when he finally started getting rewarded.

Not_Isles5513 liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 1:20 p.m.

#15

Islesforthecup

Joined: Nov. 2020

Posts: 4,901

Likes: 1,406

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

I dont see how NYI doesnt at least get the eichel package and this is not. Tuch>>>>>dube sorry. As well as the fact that barzy should get a better return than eichel bc of the injury as well as the nmc that was about to kick in. Not to mention like with the eichel deal a top C prospect would be needed. Im a big coronato fan but hes not a C

Aug. 16, 2022 at 1:23 p.m.

#16

soooonk

Joined: Dec. 2015

Posts: 410

Likes: 138

First off, I wouldn't worry about adding a disclaimer. ACGM should be to share stuff like this that might not happen and see what the value of those players are (not like how Montreal fans value there players though lol).

Carolina trade is probably pretty close. They may need to trade a dman before making the deal.
Agree that Flames need to swap Valimaki with another underperforming prospect (unless they can package him for a better player).
For the Barzal trade, I think that's gotta be close. Coronato has 1st line scorer potential, Dube is a solid middle six forward, and Vladar has shown he can be a more than capable backup and I'd even be okay trading the picks unprotected if the Flames had to. The only issue in comparing it to the Eichel deal is the neck injury.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 1:38 p.m.

#17

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Islesforthecup

Coronato actually does play center at Harvard. And Again this is banking on Dube breaking out like his numbers suggest he should, note that the trade takes place next year and I think Dube will have a much much better 22/23 season than last year. I really don't think he should get a much better return since Eichel is the better player but if a prospect like Kerins or Zary needs to be added I think there is room for negotiation. The point of this post was to just see the hypothetical value if Lou is put into a similar situation as Tre and Adams were.

Islesforthecup liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 2:26 p.m.

#18

Not_Isles5513

1GarthSnowFan

Joined: Dec. 2021

Posts: 11,744

Likes: 4,803

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

I agree with you about Dube having a lot of room to grow, but I also don’t think he’s a Tuch level player. That’s all

Ledge_And_Dairy liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 2:37 p.m.

#19

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Isles5513

I agree with you about Dube having a lot of room to grow, but I also don’t think he’s a Tuch level player. That’s all

Yes but thats also why Vladar is there, he is worth at least a 2nd right now

Aug. 16, 2022 at 2:51 p.m.

#20

Not_Isles5513

1GarthSnowFan

Joined: Dec. 2021

Posts: 11,744

Likes: 4,803

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

Yes but thats also why Vladar is there, he is worth at least a 2nd right now

I don’t know that any non-flames fan would agree with on Vlader. IK I don’t tbh. Ur betting on two guys that aren’t in the same category as Tuch taking a huge step forward. I think you need to keep that in mind.

Isles fans hold Raty in very high regard compared to the general consensus. I’m not saying that is the wrong opinion, but I am saying that you have to be realistic about ur prospects chances. I really like Raty, but I’m not gonna go out and say he’s a future top line center either. I’m not at that point. I value his potential, but IK the isles would probably have to move him to make a significant upgrade. If you aren’t willing to part with Pelletier I don’t blame you, but you have to be honest about the fact ur taking a calculated risk. Otherwise you can post trades that seem like a low ball offer.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 3:21 p.m.

#21

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Isles5513

I dont see why Vladar wouldnt be worth a 2nd. He was acquiring for a 3rd before making the NHL then had a very solid rookie season in Calgary. His value has certainly gone up at the least.

I said at the beginning that this whole thing is a reach based on the situation of both MB wanting out and Dube taking that big step. I am also assuming that Coronato simply maintains his current value of on par with Krebs and doesn't exceed it though.

Not_Isles5513 liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 3:23 p.m.

#22

Not_Isles5513

1GarthSnowFan

Joined: Dec. 2021

Posts: 11,744

Likes: 4,803

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

I agree but I think the issue is that most people don’t c Dube and Vlader being worth Tuch. Especially after how Tuch played with the Sabres last year.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 3:25 p.m.

#23

Ledge_And_Dairy

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 38,538

Likes: 19,679

Quoting: Isles5513

I agree but I think the issue is that most people don’t c Dube and Vlader being worth Tuch. Especially after how Tuch played with the Sabres last year.

I understand, we shall see though. I doubt Barzal is ever made available anyways

Not_Isles5513 liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 3:25 p.m.

#24

Not_Isles5513

1GarthSnowFan

Joined: Dec. 2021

Posts: 11,744

Likes: 4,803

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

I understand, we shall see though. I doubt Barzal is ever made available anyways

Honestly I’m just surprised we didn’t see a Canucks fan comment this isn’t enough for JT Miller lmao.

Ledge_And_Dairy liked this.

Aug. 16, 2022 at 3:49 p.m.

#25

Islesforthecup

Joined: Nov. 2020

Posts: 4,901

Likes: 1,406

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

Coronato doesmt project as a C at the nhl level though so hes still a W. You wrote that dube hits 40 points sorry but even so tuch>>>40 point dube. I dont think much better return but i think he should get a better return as kevyn adams had less than 0 leverage.

Page 1 of 2 (7 more posts)

DISPLAY SETTING

BETTING ODDS

LOCALE

ARCHIVE

CBA

CALCULATORS

FANTASY HOCKEY TOOLS

TOOLS

PLAYERS

WESTERN CONFERENCE

EASTERN CONFERENCE

INTERACTIVE FEATURES

Forums/Armchair-GM