Forums/Armchair-GM

Not realistic

Created by: Leafs3416
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 26, 2022
Published: Nov. 26, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Description
Trade 1

Future Considerations. Leafs need the roster flexibility and gives Simmonds a fair chance to play. Gives Edmonton toughness on the 4th line to protect star players. And we all know how the oilers love leaf castoffs.

Trade 2

Toronto gets a versatile forward to play in their bottom 6 who can actually score some points in Vatrano. Obviously retention would be needed.

Anaheim gets a player in Anderson to fill the spot Vatrano leaves and Hirvonen adds to the young talent they have and possible trade chip for them later if need be. 2024 4th round pick for the retention could be higher if needed.

Trade 3

Trading Kerfoot is solely a cap dump trade as he is garbage right now. Could get more for him maybe based on his stats last year and he is serviceable on the PK.

Trade 4

Engvall is just not playing like a guy that is 6'5 220 and does not really help the bottom 6. Suter has been a healthy scratch for Detroit so maybe a change of scenery for both players would help them. Picks could be involved either way as needed. Also gives Toronto a solid 3rd line center down the stretch without giving up a whole lot.
Trades
1.
TOR
    Future Considerations. Toughness on the 4th line to protect star players.
    EDM
    1. Simmonds, Wayne
    2.
    TOR
    1. Vatrano, Frank ($1,825,000 retained)
    ANA
    1. Anderson, Joey
    2. Hirvonen, Roni
    3. 2024 4th round pick (TOR)
    3.
    TOR
    1. 2023 4th round pick (CAR)
    2. 2024 3rd round pick (CAR)
    CAR
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    Additional Details:
    Cap dump so can really be any team and any pick that works
    4.
    TOR
    1. Suter, Pius
    Additional Details:
    Change of scenery
    DET
    1. Engvall, Pierre
    Additional Details:
    Change of scenery
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2023
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the OTT
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the CAR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    2024
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the CAR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the OTT
    2025
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$82,500,000$79,667,913$212,500$0$2,832,087
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Bunting, Michael
    $950,000
    LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Nylander, William
    $6,962,366
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Järnkrok, Calle
    $2,100,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Marner, Mitchell
    $10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Robertson, Nicholas
    $796,667
    LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
    Suter, Pius
    $3,250,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    Vatrano, Frank
    $1,825,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Aston-Reese, Zach
    $840,630
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Kämpf, David
    $1,500,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Malgin, Denis
    $750,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Rielly, Morgan
    $7,500,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    LD/RD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Murray, Matt
    $4,687,500
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Sandin, Rasmus
    $1,400,000
    LD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Liljegren, Timothy
    $1,400,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Samsonov, Ilya
    $1,800,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Giordano, Mark
    $800,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Holl, Justin
    $2,000,000
    RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Timmins, Conor
    $850,000
    RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Benn, Jordie
    $750,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    Gaudette, Adam
    $750,000
    C, RW
    RFA - 1

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    Nov. 26, 2022 at 2:24 a.m.
    #1
    PlusMinus is stupid
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    Title is spot on
    aedoran liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 2:34 a.m.
    #2
    Thread Starter
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    Quoting: DeadWingsv2
    Title is spot on


    Please share why you think this, instead of just criticizing, saying because we don't want Engvall doesn't work. Sometimes it's nice to have some back and forth conversations with people on here to see what peoples thoughts are on things. I am all for adding something else or switching things up.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 2:54 a.m.
    #3
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    Quoting: Leafs3416
    Please share why you think this, instead of just criticizing, saying because we don't want Engvall doesn't work. Sometimes it's nice to have some back and forth conversations with people on here to see what peoples thoughts are on things. I am all for adding something else or switching things up.


    "Not Realistic" title was posted, meaning you believe these are unrealistic? Someone says "title was spot on." That was agreeing with your post, that you believe these to be unrealistic. Why do you think they are unrealistic?
    DeadWingsv2 and aedoran liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:14 a.m.
    #4
    Seiders on the Storm
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    Edited Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:38 a.m.
    Suter is playing each game. What are you talking about? Red Wings don't need Engvall. We'll keep the better player in Suter until we get some bodies back from injury.

    We'll take a 3rd. There's no need to clog up the roster with rental Engvall. Red Wings aren't obligated to do favours for the Leafs.

    I don't know why Leafs fans keep offering the same garbage for Vatrano. Verbeek isn't trading a player he just signed for multiple years in UFA. Otherwise he'll not be able to sign any future UFA's. He signed Klingberg for 1 year with the sole intention of trading him for a 1st round pick at the trade deadline.

    No team wants washed up Wayne Simmonds. He's cleared waivers at least twice this season.

    Leaf fans have wanted Kerfoot traded for 3 years now and he's still there. I expect he'll still be a Leaf after the trade deadline.

    Verbeek is doing the same thing Yzerman is. He's surrounding his young core players with good vets who can take pressure off them and show them the way. Not every vet needs to be traded away during a rebuild.
    DeadWingsv2, GiggywithGibby, OldNYIfan and 2 others liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:17 a.m.
    #5
    Thread Starter
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    Quoting: CoachCoach
    "Not Realistic" title was posted, meaning you believe these are unrealistic? Someone says "title was spot on." That was agreeing with your post, that you believe these to be unrealistic. Why do you think they are unrealistic?


    Touche, I wrote the title before actually doing any trades then did not bother changing title. I do belief they could be realistic with some tweaks here and there.
    aedoran liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:22 a.m.
    #6
    Thread Starter
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    Quoting: MoreHitzSeider
    Suter is playing each night. What are you talking about? Red Wings don't need Engvall. We'll keep the better player in Suter until we get some bodies back from injury.

    We'll take a 3rd. There's no need to clog up the roster with rental Engvall. Red Wings aren't obligated to do favours for the Leafs.

    I don't know why Leafs fans keep offering the same garbage for Vatrano. Verbeek isn't trading a player he just signed in UFA. Otherwise he'll not be able to sign any future UFA's.


    Oh I thought I read on an article that he was healthy scratched but I just looked and ya he has played every game. Also I never said Detroit needs to do favor's I thought Suter was healthy scratch so it was for both to have fresh starts. Engvall to hopefully find his game and Suter to play (which obviously I see now that he is)

    There was literally just a 32 thoughts on the leaf's interest in Vatrano and the Ducks looking to move people depending on if the money and return works for them which my offer may very well not.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:32 a.m.
    #7
    57 year hockey nut.
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    Edited Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:38 a.m.
    Sorry but Suter doesn't need a change of scenery, And we're not dealing him for Engval either.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:41 a.m.
    #8
    PlusMinus is stupid
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    Quoting: Leafs3416
    Please share why you think this, instead of just criticizing, saying because we don't want Engvall doesn't work. Sometimes it's nice to have some back and forth conversations with people on here to see what peoples thoughts are on things. I am all for adding something else or switching things up.

    Kudos to you for wanting to have real dialogue. As others have said, based on the title, I thought you knew these were unrealistic and were just spamming the board with "square peg in round hole” scenarios that the Leafs fanbase has a bit of a bad reputation for doing.

    With that said, Detroit and Toronto are really not trade partners, under any scenario to be honest. What the Leafs are selling, Detroit isn't buying and it seems unlikely that Toronto is willing to pay the rate for what Detroit would be willing to trade. Engvall (along with Holl and Kerfoot) have been attempted on this board at an almost comical rate to Detroit and there is just zero fit. We have players on the roster and in the system we would rather play, so they're not fits here, at all.

    As for the Carolina trade, I don't see why they would give up multiple assets for a player that the Leafs want gone and you even admit is viewed as a cap dump by many. The is no leverage for the Leafs there. Realistically, Toronto would be lucky to get a 3rd alone for Kerfoot and even that is unlikely.
    OldNYIfan, aedoran and Leafs3416 liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:44 a.m.
    #9
    Future Ducks legend
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    Quoting: Leafs3416
    Oh I thought I read on an article that he was healthy scratched but I just looked and ya he has played every game. Also I never said Detroit needs to do favor's I thought Suter was healthy scratch so it was for both to have fresh starts. Engvall to hopefully find his game and Suter to play (which obviously I see now that he is)

    There was literally just a 32 thoughts on the leaf's interest in Vatrano and the Ducks looking to move people depending on if the money and return works for them which my offer may very well not.


    There was a 32 thoughts where Friedman spitballed that Toronto needed a player like Vatrano, then in the same breath mentioned it wouldn't work due to cap reasons. Every reporter from Toronto to Vegas heard "Toronto wants Vatrano" and ran with it, and now there's trade speculation everywhere that Dubas is trying to pry Frank loose from Anaheim.

    It's not happening, Vatrano was Verbeeks FIRST signing as a GM. You want us to trade him 25% of the way through a season right after we gave him a 3 year deal? What UFA would sign with the Ducks after that knowing that the GM might immediately turn around and ship him out of town.

    Vatrano is a heart and soul player who refuses to give up on the game even in the face of certain defeat. He is leading all our forwards in hits and shot block, and beating out many of our defense there too, and he's good for about 20 goals a season. He was brought onto this team to help turn the locker room around and to teach the kids to dig deep and keep fighting, and if you've watched all our games this season, you can see that starting to wear off on them.

    And you want us to retain ~5.5 million on him, across three seasons, for a guy who can't seem to crack a NHL roster, a diminutive Finnish winger, and a future mid round pick?
    OldNYIfan, aedoran and Leafs3416 liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 3:58 a.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: Leafs3416
    Touche, I wrote the title before actually doing any trades then did not bother changing title. I do belief they could be realistic with some tweaks here and there.


    So instead analyze why the opposite team would "accept." I will use the Wings trade as that is my favorite team in the example. You are proposing a trade from TOR's point of view. So this is a trade offered to SY. Based on his history, the two teams and their history, etc. TOR is looking for upgrades at LW, in the bottom 6 (CF TOR fans do your thing) and an upgrade on RHD (seemingly shifted more positive recently). You also have cap constraints limiting some options. Kerfoot, Holl, Engvall, are seemingly the most obvious candidates based on performance compared to salary.

    You move Engvall to Detroit for a middle to bottom 6 C in Suter, which benefits TOR based on their need for (upgrade in bottom 6) even at the gain in salary cap. Detroit gains nothing as Engvall adds in to what there is already a surplus of. He also would not be re-signed. The cap hit is irrelevant to the conversation as the added space doesn't impact immediate needs. There is no added benefit since Engvall has done nothing to garner the same level of trust as Suter. So for Detroit, there are two players that have no added benefit (outside of who holds more value moving when the time comes) which would be Pius. So Detroit downgrades at the cost of an irrelevant cap hit.
    aedoran and Leafs3416 liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 7:34 a.m.
    #11
    Fowler 4 Norris
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    Not a shot Anaheim even thinks about this

    We aren’t trading away a guy we just signed, with retention, for nothing. It will have to be an overpay and this is not close to that
    OldNYIfan and Leafs3416 liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 9:42 a.m.
    #12
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    If Kerfoot is a "cap dump" (your words) why would any team give up assets for him?
    That is one horrendous trade for the Ducks. for Vatrano. Why do Leaf fans think Anderson is an NHLer? If he was he would be a Leaf.
    Simmons. He's not moving from his home. He's either a Leaf or Marlie. Doesn't hurt the Leafs cap either way. I think he will find his way to play some more as a Leaf.
    Suter is worth more than Engvall. If Wings do trade their UFA, they will get a better return.
    OldNYIfan, aedoran and Leafs3416 liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 10:28 a.m.
    #13
    First NY Then LA
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    We didn't sign Frank Vatrano just to trade him after 19 games, especially since he looks like he's going to be exactly what we expected him to be (if not more, as my esteemed friend @GiggyWithGibby implies). Moreover, as your senior authority @palhal points out, Anderson isn't an NHLer, and Hirvonen has no value behind Jakob Perreault and Sam Colangelo; for that package, you'd be lucky to get Brett Leason.
    palhal and aedoran liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 10:32 a.m.
    #14
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    Why would we be paying assets for a so-called "cap dump?" Anyway, prior to the season starting i might would've considered this, but seeing how slow of a start Kerfoot is off to and how well Martinook's has done on that 3rd line, i'd decline rn. We have no shortage of depth players who can't score, we don't need another.
    palhal liked this.
    Nov. 26, 2022 at 10:37 a.m.
    #15
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan


    :"Senior authority PalHal". The only advantage of being a "señior" authority is that I eligible for 648 dollars a month "Old Age Pension" at age 65. which I am collecting.
    Then if in Canada if you managed your finances well, and have an income of over 6000 dollars a month, the Old Age Pension is then "clawed back" (taken away from you) because the feds figure you don't need it.
    I'm sure you didn't mean "seniority authority" in the way I described. Thank you, but I had to give a "financial rant" to my fellow Canadians.
    OldNYIfan and aedoran liked this.
     
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