Can't see the Ducks or any team trading a NHL player with years of control for in effect two third rounders

That seems about right

Lundestrom is 23 years old and my understanding is that he's under team control until 2027. He seems to have proven that he's a third-line player with a 200-foot game. Kerfoot won't be on the Ducks roster next season and it's not likely that the third-round draft pick will EVER be on the Ducks roster. Lundestrom for someone like Liljegren or Sandin (depending upon your evaluation of Lundestrom) would be conceivable.

You've gone from one extreme to another with those valuations. You are talking about 2 young defensemen who have shown they might be top 4 going forward for a center who's ceiling would have to be considered 3C with his lack of offense. A defensive 3C, even a young one, won't get the likes of promising young defensemen.

Wei don’t think he will be moved at all. A solid 3C/4C for the future who fits our timeline

Doesn’t make sense to trade him to then try and find another version of him

The Ducks aren't trading a young, cheap soldier for an older, more expensive UFA.

While I agree with your characterization that they MIGHT become top 4 defensemen going forward, I've seen nothing to suggest that they've "shown" (i.e., demonstrated) that they will achieve that rank.

My point is that if you want Lundestrom on one side of the equation, about the only players we would like to see on the other side are Sandin or Liljegren.

Neither will a pending UFA that cost too much and you can't figure out how to use, whose trade value only plumbers further once he's playing on our roster, and a mid round pick buys a young 3C with team control until 2027.

Lundestroms a build with piece who's the right age for our team, we're not subtracting those pieces for lottery tickets. We hit on lundestrom, he's what we expect of him, so what incentive do we have to move him for a third and a fifth that have very minor chances to become NHL players?

If the player is under the age of 25, or is named Vatrano, Strome, Fowler, or Gibson, they're not moving. Anyone else on the roster we can discuss.

No reason for the Ducks to move him for anything less than Sandin or Liljegren. That’s his value

What’s the difference in what Lundestrom has proven as a 23 year old vs what Liljegren has proven as a 23 year old? Or does one get to have “potential” because he’s a leaf and the other doesn’t?

Lundestrom had 16 goals last season btw.

One has been playing the actual role with success while the other hasn't. It's a pretty big difference.

What role? 3rd pair D? Liljegren has averaged 15 min a night before this season and it’s only bloated this year because Brodie has missed 8 games.

I don’t understand how the older of the 2 with less NHL games is on the opposite positive extreme compared to Lundestrom.

Liljegren got put up the lineup before Brodie got injured, the Muzzin injury is what prompted Brodie being moved around and Liljegren's increased ice time. He's averaging 17 minutes a game this season and looking good while doing it. Move the goal posts all you want but the facts are the facts. One has done, the other hasn't.

The one that has done it is Lundestrom, which is my point. Lundestrom has played ~90 more games than Liljegren. He’s done it. Liljegren is still trying to do it.

It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s just pointing out how hypocritical your reasoning is.

It's not hypocritical at all. You are here asking why the young RHD who's currently finding success in the top 4 is more valuable than the forward who has 5 points through 22 games(and a career high of 29). Take your head out of your ass.

You’re claiming Liljegren’s potential is untapped because he’s 23 only played 86 games. He’s young blah blah blah. But the 23 year old 3C has plateaued basically because he’s been in the NHL longer. It’s hypocritical.

No where have I said Lundestrom has plateaued. It's just reasonable expectations. No NHLer shoots 20% across a long period, expecting him to continue on that goal pace is unreasonable. He'd have to double his production to be at a 2Cs level. Again, not a reasonable expectation. I get it, he's your guy but you are just homering worse than you believe Leafs fans do.

I’m not homering. I’m asking you how one 23 year old is on one extreme vs the other and all you’ve given me is he’s played ~10 games in the top 4 so he’s an elite 23 year old and the other is a defensive 3C so he’s a bad 23 year old.

You are homering. I've given you stats which you just ignored to try and stand here for your guy but if you want to delve deeper, lets do that.

Liljegren is a 23 year old who has been called on to play top 4 minutes in both of the last 2 seasons, the current 10 game stretch only being the most recent. He has performed at 4.21% above average xG across the past 3 seasons(all numbers even strength) on a team that has been well above average as a whole during that time. He's also a RHD, the most valuable position on hockey.

Meanwhile Lundestrom has scored at 0.28 points per game as a forward on the ducks. The points he has scored was largely on a run where he was shooting 20%, 8% above his average and completely unsustainable when we look at league wide stats. When we look at overall play, he is sitting at 4.92 xG below average for the Ducks ... a team well below average as a whole. When we choose to look on the defensive side of things only, which he has been sold as by Ducks fans in here, he is 0.01 xGA better than average on the Ducks ... or basically exactly average for a well below average team. Maybe he will improve on his defensive game with time, this is at least reasonable to expect unlike his offense turning from night to day.

So when we look at it, Liljegren has been an effective young defenseman who has been performing above average on an above average team. Ludestrom has not been an effective forward, playing below average on a below average team. How's that for facts? Queue the goal posts.

The thing with the TDL is Toronto has Muzzin's money to use should they decide to. Rn we really have no need for Lunderstrom

If anything we should be looking for a true upgrade over Kerfoot. A 2-Way wing who can PK, score 20+ goals and just add depth scoring. There are some guys to explore but Lunderstrom is just not that guy. He would have intrigued me to be our 3c but Holmberg has come in and said hey I can do that and hes been good.