Why would Ari retain for 4 years?

Yeah you’re adding Knies + a first minimum to the Arizona trade


Remove the retention and Arizona still doesn’t consider

Lol, zero chance the Leafs trade Knies for a guy he'll be better than immediately

a la Jimmy Vesey?

There isnt a single piece in that schenn trade that the leafs would move for schenn straight up

If knies is Vesey, why do you want him?

Good thing you're not gm

Knies isn't scoring 20+ his 1st year

Yeah that Arizona trade is an easy pass for the Coyotes

dude, you think Luke Schenn is worth multiple picks and a significantly better defender than he is. I dont think you should be throwing around who would make a good or bad gm

Holl is not good. He is one of the worst defenseman in the league. Schenn is an instant upgrade

yeah that's not remotely true. Holl is an average 2nd pairing defender. As in right in the middle of the league at worst. Schenn cant even get top 4 ice time on a team as bad as the canucks.

I’m no huge fan of Holl but that statement is a stretch; he plays big minutes on one of the top defensive teams in the league. He’s objectively NOT “ one of the worst defensemen in the league”; that’s pretty weak take.

Neither did Crouse, in fact he's only done it once in his career.

You are either a troll pretending to be a leaf fan or are just straight up unaware of how the game works.

Yeah and he's four goals from doing it again. Regardless, the original claim was that Knies would be better than Crouse immediately, which means scoring 20+ goals immediately, at minimum.

Schenn gets Top-4 minutes, and his and Bear's workloads are almost completely split. Bear sees slightly more 5v5 ice time, Schenn gets more PK time. When Bear or Myers are out of the lineup, Schenn is playing 20+ minutes.

If you want a shutdown defender who can play Top-4 minutes, Schenn is one of the best options on the trade market. That's not even factoring in his 850k cap hit.

The ask from Vancouver for Schenn is a 2nd, but if they're taking Holl back too, then the 3rd would balance out the cap impact.

He has played 20+ minutes twice this year.

He's a bottom pairing defenseman who gets to play a lot more minutes than he should because Vancouver's D is abysmal.

he's 5th in ice time on a bad team, so he doesnt get top 4 ice time, that is especially true if his 'extra' ice time comes on the PK. Real top 4 defenders get top 4 even strength ice time because that's where most of the game is played. And if you lose two defenceman on any team a bottom pairing guy is going to have to step up and play more, that isnt an impressive thing.
And if I wanted a shut down defenceman i wouldnt get luke schenn because he doesnt shut down anything. He gets buried out there. If a guy gets killed he isnt shutting down anything.
Vancouver can ask for a 2nd all they want, but a guy who wouldnt be a regular on any actual good team is not worth close to that. Holl is a regular on a good team, has been for years. He's actually played 20+ mins a game for over 3 seasons now.
To ask the Leafs for Holl is a 2nd, but if they're taking schenn back then another 2nd would have to be added to compensate for the decrease in actual on ice ability

As a diehard prospect guy for the last 7 or so years, I genuinely don’t think there’s been a more painful discourse than Leafs obsessesion with Knies. He’s good but hooo boy calm down.

It is clear that neither of you watches Canucks hockey, so you don't know what you're talking about with Schenn. The Canucks split the time between him and Bear, as I've already explained. The statistical difference between Schenn's and Bear's ice time is equivalent to one shift's worth of ice time.

The Canucks have no interest in Holl, you're welcome to move him somewhere else if you think you can get a 2nd for him, too.

I digress, Schenn is worth a 2nd as has been repeatedly reported as the ask. I don't know what else to tell you other than you're wrong.

What am I wrong about? He's only logged 20+ minutes twice this season. He's 6th on the Canucks in even strength time on ice per game. He's 5th in total time on ice per game. The Canucks D is abysmal.

Those are all facts.

you know what's clear? When all someone has to say about a player is some flavour of "you dont watch the games". It immediately means you have nothing to actually defend your player, because you know I cant prove I watch the games and I cant prove you dont. So let me spare you the back and forth and say that you watching the games more or less than me means nothing (oh and I do watch the games, more than you do, prove me wrong!).
And the statistical difference between Bear and schenn's ice time is top 4 and bottom pair

The Leafs have no interest in Schenn, if you want to move him to the leafs then you need to pay the leafs to take him because they dont need a 5th RD. Schenn is not worth a 2nd and if some sucker GM pays that then you should feel blessed because it's a robbery

Ice time doesn't reflect ability. You called Schenn a bottom-pairing defenseman, he's capable of playing Top-4. That's where you were wrong.

You're getting all worked up over a trade offered by a Leafs fan. Your fellow fan offered the trade, why are you getting mad at me for the trade offer? I'm just critiquing what the Canucks would want. It's a good trade from Vancouver's POV. You're the one upset by it.

There's a lot more to see when you watch a player in a game, rather than just looking at their stats and saying "Yup, that's a bad player." You're a hypocrite.

Schenn has played an average of 17:10 this season, Bear has played an average of 18:17. The average shift is 40 seconds. It's literally a shift difference per game. They share the workload of the Top-4/Bottom-4 pairing because Bear is better offensively and Schenn is better defensively.

Judging from the 100+ trade offers by Leaf fans for Schenn, I'm willing to bet there is a great deal of interest from Toronto. Not only are you out of touch with the Canucks, it seems like you're even out of touch with your own team.