Genuine question:

Do you really think picks 27 and 25 are more valuable than pick 28 and Holtz (et. al)

First off the Blues aren't offering both the 25th and 27 picks for Meiers, it's one or the other not both. the other will probably be used to go after Jakob Chychrun.

And besides most teams linked to Timo Meier, can still offer a heck of a lot more than St Louis even including Detroit.

Yeah man I think we’re really grasping at straws with the STL news today. They really have their work cut out for them cap wise to make it work. Winnipeg is flat out not giving up Perfetti, he’s already an important player for them. If the devils offer a 1st/Holtz/Mukh or Casey they won’t be beaten offer wise. It SJ doesn’t want it, they’ll be either keeping Meier or taking a lesser offer. If any team is going to drive up the market here, it’s Buffalo, and they don’t seem to driven to get involved here.

No that’s why I said there’s more to the trade, as did Lebrun who said it would be a package. Blues also have a pick about 10th that would easily beat the devils offer

Do you think the Blues are trading you a lottery pick this year? Genuinely?

I agree that would beat 28+Holtz, but I just cannot imagine that pick is possibly available.

Even if there is "more to the deal" on STL's end, the devils can almost certainly beat that "more" with their own "more"

Your right one of those late picks and their own 23 1st! Literally just talked about by Lebrun on insider trading that they are willing to move 2 1sts in a package for Timo

No I don’t think they move that pick. But even one 1st and one of Bolduc or Snuggerud beats the devils offer imo

From SJ's perspective, Holtz simply isn't a centerpiece to a Meier deal. Meier is too valuable to SJ and great a player who is in his prime (26 years old). Nemec or Mercer and we're talking. Understandably not Mercer since he's already an integral part of the team on and off the ice, so that leaves Nemec. He's too high-picked a prospect as a former #2 and a RDman who are always very valuable, so turn that late 2023 1st into a late 2023 2nd instead and there's a deal to be made there.

If that's simply too steep for NJD, that's totally fine -- nobody's forcing NJD to make a trade for Meier. But at the same time, NJD fans need to stop forcing a Holtz-to-SJ deal as the centerpiece for a Meier trade. SJ doesn't owe Meier to NJ by whatever price Fitzgerald sets as his final offer (i.e. anyone not named Nemec or Mercer).

Blues have 3 1sts just this year and also have Bolduc and snuggerud, they absolutely have the ability to drive up the price if not beat the devils if they want to play hardball

Okay but...pick 25 is?? That's my point. How is Holtz and 28 not more valuable than pick 25 and 27? Like cmon.

It's insane to me that Blues fans think that two picks in the late-20s gets Timo Meier.

So 25+Bolduc (Wheeler's 43rd) > 28 and Holtz (Eklund's best friend + Wheeler's 22nd?)?

Interesting. Okay.

I can buy Snug but I'm not sure he'd be made available, at all.

Maybe I’d believe STL could do that, you know IF they didn’t have 13 million in cap space and only six forwards signed for next year. This reeks of a leak trying to drive up the price.

SJ shouldn't pull the trigger on either of those two options, but I agree that Holtz+a late 20s pick is probably more valuable than two late 20s picks. But to be fair, it's not by much. NJ fans have to understand that Holtz's stock has fallen considerably this year. He of course is still not a bust and should succeed, but he's not a centerpiece for Meier.

I don't think the Blues would move anything meaningful more than 25 and 27. If i were a Sharks fan I'd be hoping to receive Holtz, and their 23 1st. Armstrong doesn't get in arms races, and he's extremely shrewd in negotiations. The Blues don't have any reason to outbid NJD or whomever who is going to pay a premium for Meier to help them this season.

I still don't know if Holtz is someone that's on the table, i have a hard time believing any franchise is willing to move any of their top end prospects. The repercussions of it can be just way too immense for either team and heavily skew the favor of the trade one way or another.

I know you all want a better player than Holtz, and I know you all want a better pick than 25.

But I just don't think it's gonna happen, man. And if Greir keeps Meier becuase of that, well good on ya. But I don't think he would.

Cap space isn't an issue here. True desire to outbid someone is however. If Armstrong makes a truly irrational move and includes a few of our upper end prospects, then cap space becomes an issue. But i'd guess one way or another if something were really going to materialize here, Scandella/Leddy would go out the door one way or another and there's more than enough cap to go around. We just aren't going to be serious contenders next season most likely.

Wondering if Waddell isn't working some other options pretty hard and may jump out of this card game at some point.

If not Holtz, what would qualify as "Centerpiece"

I know Sharks view Nemec as more of B-level, and you just said Holtz is out.
So just Luke Hughes?

The #1 prospect in all of hockey is a benchmark?

Not super big on Holtz after this year is all

When Seravali says it, I question it. Totally agree. But when when Lebrun says it and mentions a price, there’s smoke to that

But he was ranked top 5-10 like a year ago he’s a star already!

Moving a prospect and late 1st for a bona fide star goal scorer will have zero repercussions on a franchise

I think sharks viewing Nemec as a B prospect is a mistake by them. Absolutely he’s an A prospect, maybe they are just skeptical because he came from a not so competitive league?

Yeah I'm not sure if that was sarcastic or not or which Sharks fans you've been interacting with. Hell, I'd even consider (key word, consider) a one-for-one Nemec-Meier deal. I think Nemec+a 2nd or Nemec+a 1st for Meier+Reimer is a good compromise.