Leafs have to do better than Mete as the seventh Dman.

Why sell low on our starting goalie when we just landed Bedard?

You guys know the drill, call up Chicago and offer the 23 1st with Murray for their 23 2nd, trade down 5-8 spots to unload him to the windy city. He has been a midwestern boy his entire career, keep him in the great lakes region.

I would do that trade for Detroit, wings fans are split on that one

Why sell low on our starting goalie when we just landed Bedard?

You guys know the drill, call up Chicago and offer the 23 1st with Murray for their 23 2nd, trade down 5-8 spots to unload him to the windy city. He has been a midwestern boy his entire career, keep him in the great lakes region.

Murray's contract is so far under water (we'd be paying him $6 million in actual salary, as my friend GiggyWithGibby has pointed out to me) that a future third isn't close to being sufficient compensation for taking him off your hands. And Giggy's right about something else: the right deal is the Boston first and Murray to Detroit for 43rd overall or Chicago for 44th overall.

Yea that sounds like a deal that makes sense for everyone. Didn't know Detroit was interested

Murray's contract is so far under water (we'd be paying him $6 million in actual salary, as my friend GiggyWithGibby has pointed out to me) that a future third isn't close to being sufficient compensation for taking him off your hands. And Giggy's right about something else: the right deal is the Boston first and Murray to Detroit for 43rd overall or Chicago for 44th overall.

TO unloaded a worse goalie with more term last summer for so much less than people said it would cost. Does that teach anyone anything though? Nope, right back to square 1. The goalie market is paper thin. Jarry might be the best option available and he's an often injured, inconsistent goalie. With many teams looking for goaltending help and not much available, Murray may be a much better option than people want to admit. Despite his "being a leaf so that means he sucks" status, he did play well when healthy and does have 2 cup rings. He's risky but he's definitely not bad.

I agree with what you're saying but OldNYIfan isn't one of those ppl and many leaf fans on here csn vouch for him myself included.

TO unloaded a worse goalie with more term last summer for so much less than people said it would cost. Does that teach anyone anything though? Nope, right back to square 1. The goalie market is paper thin. Jarry might be the best option available and he's an often injured, inconsistent goalie. With many teams looking for goaltending help and not much available, Murray may be a much better option than people want to admit. Despite his "being a leaf so that means he sucks" status, he did play well when healthy and does have 2 cup rings. He's risky but he's definitely not bad.

We're not sayin he sucks because he play for Toronto dude, you really got to take that chip off your shoulder.

We're saying that whoever takes him on has to shell out $6 million in real money for his ~4.7 million cap hit. Murray is unavailable right now to the Leafs for the third time this year due to injury, I believe this time its lingering concussion symptoms, but earlier in the year it was hip issues. He only played 26 games this season, and lost his net to Samsonov while he was healthy. On top of not being reliably available, his play wasn't good either. Samsonov posted a .919 SV% and 2.33 GAA this season, Woll posted a .933 SV% and a 2.16 GAA, while Murray put up a 0.903 SV% and a 3.01 GAA behind the same team as the other two. League average this year was a 0.903 SV% and a 2.97 GAA.

So you are left with a guy who is only able to handle ~30% of the games per year, is not reliably healthy so you don't know what games he can start, is only league average when he is playing, yet is paid like a starter, and has trade protection to boot. Mrazek at least had recent NHL seasons where he was good, Murray has been at best average since the 18-19 season. There are 10 UFA goalies this season with comparable or better stat lines to Murray that at most will cost half as much as him, names including Korpisalo, Andersen, Hill, Varlomov, Jarry, Stalock, Raanta, Halak, Lyon, and Rittich.

Lastly, we are saying the trade comparable already exists, it was the Mrazek trade to Chicago, and I would bet Chicago would take the same deal again, provided there are enough spots between the Boston 2023 1st and their own 2023 2nd at 35th overall, if they are too close you might have to toss in a late round pick to balance.

Or it won't cost a 1st at all. Because once again, he's actually a decent goalie when healthy. Unlike Mrazek who is trash. Maybe it will cost a 5th to move him and that's it.

Or it won't cost a 1st at all. Because once again, he's actually a decent goalie when healthy. Unlike Mrazek who is trash. Maybe it will cost a 5th to move him and that's it.

Average* doesn't justify $6 million, especially with an asterisk attached to it, and claiming it is "costing" a first is disingenuous, it is costing you 6-10 spots in the draft.

Costing you the first would be you attaching it to Murray and getting nothing back. His deal is VERY underwater and he is not going to be gone for as cheap as you hope (5th round pick).

Just gonna highlight the reason why it's going to be hard for Toronto to unload Murray - this is the 4th straight year he's played less than 40 games. During that time, his best single-season SV% is .906 with last year's Sens and his best GAA is 2.87 with the 2019-20 Penguins. At this point in his career, he can't be trusted on to be much more than a 1B, if not a straight up backup - and not a ton of teams are going to be lining up to spend $4.7M in cap space on a backup.

And to your earlier point about the UFA goalie crop being thin this summer, not only will I echo what GiggyWithGibby said about the amount of goalies that are available this summer with comparable/better numbers, but will also add the fact that there's not a ton of teams that are going to be proactively looking for a goalie. The only current playoff teams I can see that are losing a goalie who played 30+ games this year are Seattle, Los Angeles, and Carolina. Seattle probably doesn't plan on replacing Martin Jones with Grubauer & Driedger signed for next year; LA probably brings back Korpisalo based on his acquisition cost at the deadline; and Carolina will basically be able to have their pick of guys like Andersen, Raanta, Varlamov, Cam Talbot, & Tristan Jarry as guys with better recent track records than Murray.

And focusing on the Mrazek deal as "costing a 1st" misses the fact that Toronto received back an early 2nd in the deal, too - the difference in value between the picks is equal to a late 2nd/early 3rd on its own. So maybe you just pack up Murray with that 3rd rounder that Ottawa sent along with him and get someone to eat that cap hit; but I can't see it costing much less than that at this point - especially considering that he's got a little bit of control over his destination.

Mrazek dropped TO out of the first round and you are proposing the same thing. When it's a better player with less term. Spin it anyway you want. But the fact is, a first is a first.

Guy is sitting here talking about facts and spin yet he claims that Mrazek is the reason the Leafs lost in the first round, SMH..........

Campbell started every game in the playoffs for Toronto dude, and Mrazek was available to play from game two onwards, yet he never saw any ice time. If you are going to try and cite "the facts" maybe try to get some of them right? "A first is a first" CLEARLY fails to understand nuance, the picks are a few selections apart, as Dannibalcorpse pointed out to you, the VALUE difference between the ~28OA and ~35 OA selections are that of a third round pick.

Murray in the last 4 years has been below league average when he has been on his game, and bad when he is not, he hasn't played more than half a season in four years because he is constantly on IR, and he no longer has the excuse of having been behind a bad Ottowa defense to excuse him from having poor stats. In spite of all this, the guy has a $4.7 million cap hit and a $6 million in real money this coming season. No competitor has the cap space to take him, and the few teams that have the cap room and are not on his M-NTC don't want to pay a guy $6 million for him to ride pine, unless they get something good for it, and there are a dozen equally serviceable or better backups available this UFA season for half his cap hit or less Those are the facts.

What the hell are you evening talking about? Who said Mrazek cost the Leafs anything?

Mrazek dropped TO out of the first round.

You, you specifically said, and I quote

Of the draft

Mrazek isn't the GM, he can't cost you draft picks, Dubas did that. That, plus the number of first round playoff exits and you can see my confusion.

"Mrazek dropped TO out of the first round" ambiguous statement, Mrazrk is the actor, and something he directly did cost Toronto something, but the something is not directly stated, and Toronto did drop out of the first round in multiple things, but Mrazeks direct actions could only drop them out of the playoffs.

"Mrazeks poor play meant that his value was below that of the contract Dubas signed him to, causing Dubas to have to trade down out of the first round of the draft to dump him in Chicago" clear statement, no chance of confusing what first round Toronto was dropped from.

See the difference?