If you don't like numbers that disprove your thoughts, maybe you should consider the thoughts the problem

Feel free to look at the analytics. He's a meh player. He was overperforming with elite linemates

He's really not. A lot of his strengths come from the fabrication of Tkachuk and Gaudreau, he's taken big steps backwards since they left

or maybe there is more that 5 numbers! you choose the one that matters to you, i have know which ones mattters to me.

Yeah lets just completely ignore the fact that Kotki completely extremely sheltered minutes in comparison

Absolutely. We can talk about how he's a 60 point producer when he's not between two of the best wingers in the league! Middle of the road 2C numbers... We can talk about how he was below average defensively in a Sutter system... numbers prove it, more than just 5

I disagree with this. I think he's a middle of the road 2C. He's sitting right around Vincent Trocheck numbers, actually slightly worse. When I think of cup winning 2Cs, I think of Malkin, that season from Kadri, If you want to include ROR during that year because Schenn was supposed to be the 1C you can. He doesn't come close to guys like Crosby, prime Toews, Kopitar, Point, MacKinnon, Eichel... for his point totals when he doesn't have Tkachuk and Gaudreau beside him, he's a 60 point guy, that's middle of the pack.

sure like kk did so well all the years he was in the league... he's been the one driving his line down in every line he was with MTL. Get your head out of the sand. your gonna be nit picking every stats for its to fit your argument.

KK has ranked among the best defensive players in the league going back to his rookie season... he's always been good as a play driver. Plus, you say that like Kotkaniemi didn't just have a 40 point season for a defensive guru and like he won't get better from the age of 23... Lindholm is 29 or will be this year. He is what he is, and he's a fine 2C. He shouldn't be used in defensive situations 5v5, and he isn't the gamebreaking star you need in the playoffs...

I don't think he's elite by any means. I'd take Kotkaniemi over him all things considered. But again, consider the ACGM opinions. Still, Lindholm has been a consistent good producer at ES and no liability defensively. I wouldn't put him in the top 20 Cs like I see on lists here all the time, but I don't think he is incapable as a 1C.

we could argue on and on and on. but at the end of the day, everyone who is not a few canes fan would prefer lindolhm over kk. is everybody wrong? you can go a call him a below average 2c as much as you want. im not trying to say he is an elite for c at wall but like go and find me 50-55 center better than him in the next few years and see how.many people agree with you.

Oh wow so you looked at his jfresh card and now consider yourself an expert on every player’s value lol, maybe actually watch the Flames play more than twice a year before you weigh in on our players pal. Every player who plays with Lindholm has a career year. He played with mediocre talent last year and still had solid numbers. So yeah obviously he’d produce more with better players around him, that’s not exactly rocket science lol. If you actually had any Flames knowledge you’d know that Gaudreau had his best seasons with Lindy (averages like 97 points with him) and is a 70 point player without him

I’ve always liked Lindholm
But you already see the issue, the contract
Can’t see the Sabres bringing in another big contract at this point
But again, i do like Lindholm a lot

Lindholm is a decent C, low end 1in a pinch, solid 2. Those returns on a rental solid 2C are too high imo. You need to temper your expectations somewhat if those are what you WANT to see.....I honestly don't believe you will see close to any of them even if someone is desperate at the TDL and Calgary are out of it.

Didn't look at a JFresh card, it was EH... and I do watch the Flames more than twice a year kiddo. He's a meh 2C. You then make the outrageous claim Gaudreau's success was because of Lindholm ... dude, even in Columbus Gaudreau had a better season. Gaudreau was playing with AHLers and bottom sixers and was better... stop it. Tkachuk was definitely the driving force behind that line, but Gaudreau in his own right is a 80 point winger. Lindholm is a 60 point C...

Oh my mistake you read evolving hockey not jfresh. Well now I acknowledge that you're a Flames expert lol

Here are a list of teams that don’t have a centre that’s better than him:

Boston
Washington
Philadelphia
Columbus
Montreal
Anaheim
San Jose
Arizona
Nashville
Chicago (by next year I’m sure that will change)

Same nonsense, “here I found a chart from a guy on the internet and it says a player every GM in the league would want actually isn’t very good”.

Dont bother, he is such a homer. He uses xG graphs from one singular season to determine which player is better without knowing xG graphs dont account for player usage and deployment.

Zone start percentage does not affect xG totals, because 75% of NHL shifts start on the fly. Deployment is negligible, which is why you can ignore it. You want an argument here, so let's go.

You're going to cry every time I can prove that underlying prove you wrong, so lets use base stats. Necas outscored Lindholm. Fact. Necas had 71 points, Lindholm had 64. You're so quick to mention deployment, but something the xG charts don't account for is quality of competition and quality of teammate... you know, like how the only times Lindholm has been more than a 60 point C he was playing between Tkachuk and Gaudreau? Tkachuk who is the best winger in the league and Gaudreau whose what top 10-15? Is that simple enough since you seem to have a hard time with other stats and facts.

You try to argue a player stopped trying and caring. That doesn't mean anything lmao. If he's not caring and trying, why would anyone want him? Regardless of that happening, it has an impact. That impact is reflected here! If a player isn't trying or caring, that is held against the player! Simple.

You try to argue Necas was surrounded by talent... when he had a center that was being rotated between Kotkaniemi and Stastny all season. He didn't play with Aho, Jarvis did. Yes, Necas played opposite Svech for parts of the season, but Svech not only missed time but actually did move up to the Aho line.

You argue Lindholm is a career top 6 C... is he? He's had 1 season as a center not surrounded by 2 of the best wingers in the NHL and he overperformed... you can see that by looking at the OH HEY! The xG chart! see how his GF is bigger than the xGF? That's so simple anyone can understand it!

If you're going to cry every time you're favowite pwayer is not held in the same light you see them with, you need to go and find something else to do.

Oh and FYI, this is the 3 year graph for Gaudreau and Lindholm, Gaudreau's STILL better

Congratulations, you provided a chart that shows Johnny has better offensive xG numbers than Lindholm, as if anyone was every arguing that. You're correct, xG graphs don't account for deployment, qot or qoc,, thank you for re-clarifying that. Necas is stil sheltered, spends less time in the dzone than Lindholm, there's a clear reason his numbers will look better on an xG graph lol. The graphs are practically useless when comparing players because there isn't enough context within them to really determine who's better just by looking at a graph.

None of these players are my favourite players. "You need to go and find something else to do". You mean like whining and throwing a hissy fit any time somebody on here tells you Canes players are overrated? I think you're doing some serious projecting here man. Might wanna look into that mirror tomorrow morning.

But hey, I'm capable of having normal conversations on here without slapping graphs in peoples faces telling them their players aren't good. Might be why people on this website absolutely despise your company. Food for thought lil homie.

Necas spends marginally less time in the D zone than Lindholm at 5v5... you can track D-Zone ice time and it's very different from zone starts. That *is* accounted for. These are derived from NST, and NST tracks that. So, that debunks the *sheltered* argument.

Go find something else to do, if you think I'm projecting for calling you out on your garbage, go and do some deep soul searching. All you have done is try to insult me and question the dedication of the numbers. You've provided no counterarguments. If you have, such as *sheltered Necas* which is beyond comical. Might be why you've only had an account for a few months and you're still crying yourself to sleep in the basement alone. When you have something substantial to debate this, come back to me. Until then, you have my pity. Here's a little friendly encouragement to get into analytics. Even if you don't like the graphs so much, you cannot argue with what they represent. Despite you're comical attempts to try and interpret them, you've failed to do so on multiple occasions. Just trying to help you improve your self little buddy.

Make sure to cite that essay next time.

"Necas spends marginally less time in the D zone than Lindholm at 5v5... you can track D-Zone ice time and it's very different from zone starts. That *is* accounted for. These are derived from NST, and NST tracks that. So, that debunks the *sheltered* argument."
Which would explain why his numbers are higher... correct? You're just talking yourself in circles, I haven't even needed to say anything lol. You just regurgitated back what I said in the first place.

Listen man, you can tell me to do all the soul searching in the world, I'd come back, and you'd still be the least enjoyed person on this site. If you wanna pity me, go ahead but all of what you're doing right now is just projection.

I'm seemingly more enjoyed than you my friend. I've tried to explain this to you several times. I thoroughly encourage you to read up on things like xGF and why zone starts do not affect them, and how that when they stats are literally per 60 minutes of ice time to take an average, it makes no difference...have a good day buddy. I hope your soul searching comes up with something if you embark on it.

People clown on you when you aren't around man, I think I'll be okay LOL most disliked dude on this site. just throws a bunch of graphs in peoples faces.