Pathetic trade by the pens. They did get some very promising players and getting a Center is not always the worst idea but the concept of a conditional first for the cup final is just terrible. Even Vegas who most would agree is at least on par with the Canes are just as good yet give up a first for Hanifin. This trade could have really propelled the Pens “rebuild/retool” or whatever the pens want to label it as. The Canes here get a scorer that they have desperately needed and will most likely be able to re-sign after the playoffs. Could even out at the end but looks like a huge steal for the Canes due to the lack of a first. How do you not get a first for a first liner.

I like this trade for both teams

For Carolina, they get an elite winger without parting ways with a 1st or their better prospects

For Pittsburgh, a team with basically no prospects, they get Koivunen, Ponomarev and Lucius, 3 decent prospects and a 2nd (which may turn into a 1st). It is very much a quantity over quality package but it makes sense for Pittsburgh to want quantity

As a pens fan, this is probably one of the worst trades in franchise history..

Maybe I'm overreacting, but getting this kind of return for Jake is just criminal. Sid deserves better than this.

Sid might not be a Penguin for longer than six hours.

True. It also sounds like Dennis Maruk. And also thousands of guys we never heard of or don't remember. For every Guentzel, there's countless Braccos.

If this is all he got, I wanna know what Drury offered.

To go against the grain here, Dubas said he wanted prospects and he got 2 good ones in Lucius and Koivunen while also getting a chance at a first.
Jake also wasn't re-signing in Pittsburgh, he could've (and maybe should've) gotten more but if I'm PITT I wouldn't be too upset with the return here.

Also don't forget Bunting isn't a half bad player, put him along side Sid and you might re-coup some costs.

They weren't even top 5 prospects for Carolina. He got a plethora of "meh" picks and players and got nothing that is likely to ever make a difference at the NHL level while trading away a true 1st line player. Only hope is he returns to PIttsburgh in FA.

Maybe I just have a different perspective on this (and not at all saying I think PITT won this trade, Carolina did IMO) but why would any team trade top prospects for a rental ever.
Dubas did fine given the tough situation, maybe he should've come out and asked for picks that are more easily moved but I'm not gunna say this is a landslide victory (though again, it is a victory for Carolina).

This was the best that Pittsburgh could get?!? Truly underwhelming.

Big win for Carolina.

But did he though? Two guys who don't skate or compete that well by NHL standards, one of whom is 160 pounds and the other is 6 ft but rather skinny. There are literally a dozen better prospects in the Carolina pool. Put it together with a "chance at a 1st" and this is a complete Dubas failure. And if they do not get the 1st, it;s a shocking failure. For me, it would be instantly fire-able, especially after some of his other bad moves.

A 19 y/o at a PPG in the NCAA is alright, maybe a peak of being a middle-6 winger?
20 y/o at a PPG in Liiga is good IMO, with his stature of 5'11 I assume he may fill out but who knows. Again I'd say peaks mid-6.

Jake wasn't re-signing in Pitt and some other teams in on him (EDM, COL, VGK) all seem to have backed out, plus the injury I'd say dropped the price a bit.
I don't think anyone was trading their top prospects for him (outside of EDM who may have moved Holloway).

All of it combined I wasn't really sure why people on this site were expecting him to get an A+ Prospect and a 1st and +++ as he seems to want to test FA.
Maybe if there was a chance at an extension in place it becomes more lopsided (and who knows, maybe later today Carolina will come out with an extension for him and really rub in the victory here) but all I'm saying right now is that this wasn't a landslide.

Dubas did fine, Waddell did better. B- and A+ I'd say?

It's way worse that a 160 pound guy is 5-11 than if he was 5-8. You can quote NCAA and Liiga stats all you like, but those are nowhere near rock solid proof of anything. They're still tiny wingers who don't skate that well or compete hard. And they're still mere piffle relative to the rest of the Carolina pool.

Dubas better pray that 1st comes through, because if not, he should be fired. From a cannon. As of today, he's nowhere near B- or even passing C. As of now, he got no 1st and nothing anywhere near an A prospect. He allowed Carolina to pile up nickels and dimes and wishes. That could get a small bump if the 1st comes through, but this was brutal asset management if two years of Bunting is the best thing he got - from in the division, no less.

I think you think I'm taking a hard line on Pitt doing great in this trade when I'm not, I'm saying they have done well given the difficult situation.
The prospects aren't top tier, as to why I said they peak at mid-6 in my eyes, and the picks are underwhelming.
But they get a decent mid-6 winger with term, 3 prospects varying from C- to B and a couple picks for a guy who would've been playing another 20 games in the Pens jersey.
Is it great? No. Is it under what I expected? A little bit. Is it as HORRENDOUS as we are making it out to be given the situation around the trade? No, it's alright.

I suppose we'll need to agree to disagree.

As with any deal time will tell, maybe Dubas could've pushed harder and gotten one of the 2 North Dakota boys but if people were thinking Nikish, Nadaeu or Morrow was going to be a part of this deal than it's a bit laughable (which is the consensus I have gotten from this thread).

That would actually be hilarious if there were actual GMs among us and they used to gauge fan tolerance.

I have not read through the thread so I don;t know what other said and I certainly did not suggest they should gotten Nikishin. Morrow or Nadeau should have been in play, though. You may be content with the return, but as of right now, I don;t see how that could be possible. Is Pittsburgh trying to reload, are they trying to stay competitive... this return Dubas agreed to does not seem to know. I cannot see it as anything other than pretty damn weak GM work.

Well, setting aside that teams have done this many times, there is a huge wide gulf between "top prospects" and the ones Pittsburgh got yesterday. And Carolina has a rather deep pool. I know you're not a Pens fan, but there's a whole lot of bright siding here.

There seems to be more negativity and as I said in my first comment I am trying to go against the grain in my responses, I still do hold that Carolina won this trade.
The sentiment on this site for Guentz return (who again, is fully expected to test FA) was outlandish, Carolinas top 3 prospects (and any teams top prospects) were never going to be in the picture but again maybe the 2 in ND could've been.
If Carolina can re-sign Jake than 100% this becomes more lopsided, but that clearly wasn't on the table for any team and 100% contributed to why his value dropped.

We'll see how everything pans out, Bunting being a part of this is a dark horses in the valuation too, don't count out what may happen in the weeks to come.

I'll also add to this that before the trade I wasn't expecting Jake to get a lot in return, so when this was announced my initial thought's were "yea about what he's worth".
I can see in the comments and ACGM's before this deal that most people were expecting him to return a lot more, which I never understood.

Ultimately the perception of his return on this site was way off here and why I think so many people are bashing this trade.
Carolina won, Pitt got what he was worth in this situation, what else can you ask for.

Heh.

1 - Let me be super clear: My take or view is in no way shaped or influenced in any small way by CF. So very nope.

2 - I did not expect more. I expected better. Which is entirely logical.

I figured I'd put this here for context - Summary of Guentzal after his draft year

You're absolutely right though - there are more under sized prospects that don't pan out in comparison to those that become Jake Guentzal.

I just think it's important to take a breathe and acknowledge that every player develops differently and we won't really know what we have here for awhile.

If Guentzel will re-sign or/and Carolina go and win Cup this is huge win for Carolina.

If Guentzel is just rental and Carolina not win Cup i think its fair trade.

If all teams knew Guentzel want to test FA market, it probably dropped his price a lot. Many team who was looking forward also made they deals, what probably dropped price too. Dubas was waiting too long. Guentzel injury probably dropped his value too. I dont have history data in here to comparate from last couple years from pure rentals (i have headache so sorry for being lazy and not look at trades from last couple trade deadline to comparate to this). Koivunen has done well in here Finland. Who know, maybe you got solid top 6 player on him and you didnt lose Guentzel free and he could re-sign with PIT next summer or maybe PIT was able to avoid overpaying him now. Dubas has given some big contracts in past. Ofc PIT should have got 1st round pick, because they didnt got any Carolina top 5 talents.

Ofc i watch this more on Caroline side when i voted fair trade now. I will come back to this once i see playoffs and next time i will come back after 3-5 year to see if Guentzel new contract is still good and see where is prospects what PIT got.

I'm not a Pens fan. I'm under no strain to look at it in the best way. If it was me, and I had Guentzel, I would consider that package quite disappointing. Same goes for my own performance was it my trade.