Nylander is not worth anything more than 7M. Look at all the examples around the league.

Pastrnak 6.67x7
Larkin 6.1x5
Ehlers 6x7
Scheifele 6.25x8
Forsberg 6x6
Gaudreau 6.75x6

Nylander is at best only better than Larkin and Ehlers and even that's debatable. His demands are an outlier to say the least

Although I don't rate Nylander as high my fellow Leaf fan LoganOliver, I do agree with many of his conclusions.
Friedman and others really don't have any more insight than many fans. Are any teams willing to pay Nylander much more than the Leafs? Leafs should be quite content to let Nylander to sit out this NHL season if a contract or trade doesn't make long term sense to the team.

Why is Eichel getting 10m when Crosby makes 8.7? Because the cap rises. This is natural progression. When Crosby signed it was about McDavid money, it's not today. The comparable contracts are all at least one year old if not two. Also Scheifele and Pastrnak hadn't exploded at the time, you can't account for the player scoring crazy AFTER he signs, that's hindsight bias.

True. The Pastrnak deal under the current cap is equivalent to 7.07m x 6 yrs. In effect, 7x7 for Nylander (which I think is fair for both sides) is significantly less than Pasta.

@LoganOllivier's first point is the most important I think. The teams with defensemen of equal value to Nylander aren't interested in trading them. Just like the Leafs shouldn't be interested in trading Nylander, except for the circumstances with his contract standoff. I think what Friedman is reporting is the normal next step here, Dubas gauging some of his possible returns. I doubt he's actively seeking a trade at this point, but the deadline to sign is approaching.

Gaudreau accounts for 9.25% of the cap
Pastrnak 8.89
Larkin 7.67
Ehlers 8
Forsberg 8.22

Given the cap is at 79.5, let's say Nylander goes for 8.3% of the cap, if my math is correct, that still only amounts to roughly 6.6M, that still makes tied for the 2nd highest paid player of the players mentioned here. Even with how the cap has gone up, anything in the range of 6.5-7 should be sufficient for him

Well when Pasta signed he scored 70 points and 30+ goals and got the deal he did because Sweeney wasn't going to give in and overpay like Chiarelli did with Draisaitl. Pasta and Marchand both make less than 7 mil a year as well as Bergeron. I get the natural progression of cap increases, but the Pasta, Marchand, and MacKinnon deals arent that too far out from the initial signing. Nylander shouldn't make more than Pasta

I won't argue that, and I also agree he's asking too much. Which makes me wonder if the Friedman rumour is right, then perhaps Dubas is saying, "Listen Willy, if you think you can get more, go and find out. But if no one wants to give you as much as you're asking then lets get serious and get this deal. It's fair and we want you in the lineup." Maybe then Michael Nylander can shut the hell up and help ruin his other sons contract.

You are not wrong, however having foresight should help teams predict if a player will explode. Is anyone surprised Pastrnak exploded? Or Scheifele? Would anyone really be that surprised if Nylander scored 30 goals and added 60 assists playing with the likes of Matthews, Tavares or Marner? (He'll get some time with everyone throughout the season)

This is a concept most people seem to run from like the plague. How many people on here have said "he's only a 60 point winger?" A good management team would have an idea what they can expect from a player as they grow and player agents are smart enough to look at the big picture and down the road. Players I think are realizing that getting underpaid early in their careers is going to cost them down the road, because signing 28-29 year olds on 8 year contracts is bad money spent. At least half of that term the player will be diminishing.

So perhaps players are saying, "wait one minute, I am going to earn my money now, while I'm young and at my pyhsical best. We see guys like Perry, and Toews and Seabrook etc, guys who played great earlier in their careers on small contracts, got big deals and almost immediately started to decline, GM's are going to eventually start saying, "No you aren't getting that 8 year deal, you will be declining for most of it, here is a 3 year deal." So no I want the long term deal now, I don't think I'll get another opportunity in the future. "

People get hung up on who makes more than who. Let's say Nylander gets an 8 year 7.5 million dollar a deal contract. Just for argument's sake.

Would he be worth that deal? Health permitting I'd say absolutely. If Pastrnak was making 7.5 right now, would that be a bad deal? Not at all.

I think fans like to get hung up on 1 or 2 things but lose the forest for the trees. If you think a player will earn the money of the contract over its term, its not a bad deal. There may be better deals for sure. And then there are really bad ones that people will scratch their heads about for years. (Tom Wilson anyone? Sorry Caps fans)

No. This is the Leafs' year. Tavares, Matthews, Kadri, and decent wings up front are enough. Goalies are decent. Rielly and Gardiner are great. Zaitsev is... decent. After that the defense is question marks. The Caps won with similar forwards, a better goalie, and three defensemen better than Gardiner. The Penguins with with equivalent center depth, better wings, better goalies, and a rotating cast of defensemen that usually focused on Letang, but he's getting old and they'll add someone from a team eliminated by the deadline.

Leafs fans on CF are obsessed with solving all seven years of the Tavares contract with a cheap, long term, #1 defenseman for Nylander, and also want picks and prospects. It ain't happening. Get a third #1 defenseman for this year, and if it's someone overpriced without a lot of years left, you might still get picks and prospects. I've posted Niskanen plus Burakovsky, and been laughed at by the same Leafs homer you mentioned, because Nylander's 33 even strength goals in four years after his draft show "elite potential" as a goal scorer. Burakovsky, 4 years after his draft day, had 32. Niskanen plus Burakovsky would be a steal for Toronto, and it's possible the Caps can still compete this year, and they may see some value long term, in Nylander's playmaking ability. I think Toronto adds at least Marincin and a 2nd to balance this out, but I'd be more excited about Gauthier and Subban.

Gauthier, as promising as he appears, was drafted a spot ahead of Burakovsky, and has fewer regular season goals or points than Burakovsky has in the playoffs, so I think the Leafs are ready to cut bait.

Dreger blew up the whole report from Friedman which happens way too often. I used to like Friedman because he wasn't a hockey guy but managed to work his way into a prominent hockey reporting position. I admired that being a broadcaster who never made it as an athlete. However, the guy just speculates and has jumped into the sensationalism pool with both feet and I can't respect that. He made this breaking news story that Toronto is asking whats available.

Dreger on the other hand said this is just due diligence and we shouldn't expect anything less from Dubas at this point. The guy is prepared, more so than most of his counter parts. He doesn't want to trade Nylander and I think this is another step in negotiations. I still have hope that this gets resolved very soon.

You aren't going to find much support on here man. Caps fans are notorious for cherry picking information and ignoring everything else. (Using even strength goals to make Burakovsky equal to Nylander is just dumb)

Niskanen is 31 Nylander is 22. Enough said, there is no way to win that argument.

Since 2010 Niskanen is 9th in playoff points by a right shot defenseman.

He's second in even strength assists in this decade's playoffs to Kris Letang, who is also 31, but a lot more injury prone. (Edit: Since, 2012, he's first. Last year he led RHD in playoff blocks, hits, penalty killing minutes... the year before when the Caps had Carlson and Shattenkirk, he led Caps' defensemen in playoff power play points per sixty).

If you don't like people who use number or logic to assess hockey players, would you rather I argue with certainty? I am certain that Niskanen doubles the Leafs' chances to win the 2019 2020 and 2021 Stanley Cups.

After that, Tavares will be 31, so either you respect guys over 31, or you think the Leafs' window is only the next three years, and you add more picks to get Niskanen away from another contender.

Every Cap fan on here.

Among themselves, "Burakovsky isn't good and we need to move on from him, he's a bust."

When talking to anyone else, "Take Burakovsky, he's so underrated and is worth this player that is clearly way better but didn't play for the caps so he is less valuable than this guy who we all hate but prentend to like when it benefits us."

I'm agree with that!! I think the 1st part of the problem is Nylander overvalue himself. The 2nd problem is TML overvalue Nylander in a trade case (like TML fans, LoganOllivier) but in a contract case, they undervalue him...

I say Niskanen is 31 and Nylander is 22 and you mention Tavares will be 31 in 3 years. Okay......and Nylander will be 25 and in the midst of his prime years where he will play his best hockey.

Cap fans could easily be the worst fan base for being completely self serving but denying that is their goal.

Here's the thing man, you want to move out an older defenceman because you think his best days are likely behind him. Your team is getting older and could use some higher end young talent. Now you see Nylander as a very good target and you hope to get him in the most beneficial way possible without hurting your team. So you are sending an older defenceman who are certain won't be getting better with age and a winger who's kind of a bust, (he's not top line winger, he's a depth middle 6 guy, which is fine but its a huge step below Nylander), and with that being the facts you cherry pick a couple of stats to support this as a good plan for the Leafs when you absolutely know its a slam dunk win for the Capitals.

It'd be one thing if you just admitted that, "Hey, I am a homer for this team and it would be a sick trade." Instead, you stand firm on this little hill and will die defending the logic behind your trade. There is none, everyone see through it and you should just stop.

I'm not sure if Nylander is worth 7.5 right now. He could be, but i don't blame Dubas for not wanting to sign him for longer given the fact that Matthews and Marner are also due pay raises. If Nylander would have increased his production significantly, then i'd say go ahead and sign him to 8/7.5. But he remained the same. Didn't play particularly great in the playoffs so he didn't bump up his stock then. at this point, Kapanen can fill in Nylander's spot and you can get a defenseman for Nylander to better the blue line. That's what Dubas should be doing

You told me last week that players usually score the most as 23 year olds. Burakovsky is 23.



Not me. When other Caps fans say that nonsense, I give them 1 star, and explain why a slow start is no big deal. Burakovsky had 41 goals as an OHL rookie. He had 17 goals and 39 points as a 20 year old in the NHL, on a line with rookie Kuznetsov and aging Williams. Nylander had 22 goals and 61 points as a 20 year old, shuffling lines with 30 goal Nazem Kadri, 30 goal Auston Matthews, 30 goal James Van Riemsdyk, and aging Patrick Marleau. Nylander has 2 career playoff goals in zero series wins. Burakovsky scored two goals in game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals this year.

I'm not offering Burakovsky and Niskanen for Nylander to improve the Caps this year, or because I think Nylander is better than Burakovsky. I'm offering it because I think Bowey will play a top four role soon, Carlson is under contract long term, and Nylander, in two years, is cheaper than a combination of Burakovsky and Niskanen. I'm trading for cap space to re-sign Backstrom and Holtby. Look ahead in the Caps' long-term view on CF, and you'll get it. Niskanen last year was one of three #1 defensemen on a Cup winner. This year he could be the same, but in the third year of his contract, when Tavares is 31 and Niskanen is 34, the Caps have to pay Backstrom and Holtby like $10M each. So I'd rather sell high on Niskanen while he's got a Cup or two left in him than wait and lose him for nothing in a cap dump in the summer of 2021.

While I'm not troubled by Burakovsky's slow start, I am a little surprised at the Caps' slow start. Orpik is injured and their penalty kill is nothing without him. I think maybe the Caps make quiet, peripheral rebuilding type moves, like this one.

Kapanen is not as good as Nylander. Kapenen can play with Matthews and be a positive winger but Nylander makes Matthews better. Nylander isn't a huge step back from Marner. They are very close to the same level and Nylander might have more raw talent. But public perception changes everything and now you have Marner being a 10 million winger and Nylander being a 5.5 million winger because reality doesn't matter and what matters is what the mob thinks of you. The mob is dumb and should never be listened to. Also by mob I mean fans.

I said players have their best statistical season around the age of 24 not 23 and also Burakovsky just isn't that good. Talking about the OHL or that one time he scored 2 goals in a playoff game or whatever you want to do, is irrelevant. The trade is short sighted and dumb for TO. The big draw is Niskanen who is 31, Nylander is way better than Burakosky and that is the long term piece for TO. Its a bad trade and there is no way to make it good.

I fully anticipate a response where you point out very specific time stamps to wash over the bigger picture where you mention something that really doesn't help you but makes you feel better. This is a silly convo now.

Nylander helps Matthews get 1 point per game.
Kapanen helps Matthews get 1.5 points per game. /thread.

I wouldn't make Marner a 10 million dollar winger. I'd make him a 7.5 to 8 mil winger. Marner is a lot more defensive conscious than Nylander and he's been doing it while increasing his offensive output. Im not a Maple Leaf fan, but right now Marner is the better overall player. If Marner made 8 and Nylander 7, I would say that's pretty fair.

You are the same as so many people on here.

I say, "I think Nylander is far more valuable than Niskanen and Burakovsky isn't very good."

What you hear, "Niskanen is garbage and he isn't worth anything."

Notice that there is a big difference there?

This is what the internet is like, everyone goes overboard and to the extreme on everything.

Here is the reality friend.

Niskanen is the best defensive player on the Capitals. He's a very solid guy and he would be a terrific addition for TO. As long as that price doesn't take away from their current roster nor damage their ability to have talent in the future. So think along the lines of a lesser prospect and picks. He's not worth Nylander who is 22 years old and his best hockey is still a head of him. Now before you start talking about Burakovsky, he's played 3 complete seasons and has been around a 30 point producer, which is okay but not spectacular. Its getting hard to imagine that he's much more beyond that, a depth winger who can chip in with some offence. He's more of a Connor Brown but less likeable.

So does it make sense from a Toronto perspective to trade a 22 year old who is very close to as good as Mitch Marner (I have seen almost every game those two have played and they are not that far off in skill and talent) for a 31 year old defensive defenceman and a 3rd liner? What is the appeal there? They upgrade their defence. Okay, but I am positive they can get an upgrade over Hainsey without sending Nylander somewhere for an older player. I bet they can upgrade Hainsey with a 2nd round pick come the deadline. That is a way smarter move.

Now I am sure that my words will be read and then manually flip a switch in your brain that changes all those words to the following.

Niskanen is 90 years old and can't skate and Burakovsky may have a drinking problem and all Leaf fans personally hate the Capital fan base and are out to get me.

If you start seeing anything close to that reaction, take a deep breath, count to 10 and realize the Capitals are fine, they will likely win their division again and they have as good a chance to win the cup as anyone else.

I think this is important as well. People are paying UFA's way less now. Compare Yandle's free agent contract to De Haan's, Yandle might be more of a point getter, but a couple of years ago De Haan would probably get the same contract. Pacioretty, Stastny, Neal, a couple of years ago these guys would get PAID, but most gm's recognize players peak younger and the shift in who's getting payed is happening as we speak. You can always look at comparables and say "but but but this guy", but that's not constructive. The fact that we recognize that on guy is underpayed doesn't mean the next guy should be as well. Why is everyone using the Pastrnak contract as a comparable instead of the Draisaitl one? Because they want Ny to sign cheaply. No one's bringing up the fact that Bobby Ryan is making more than William's asking for since a couple years back because they want him to sign cheaply. Pasta has one of the better contracts in the league right now, you can't just look at the cheap extremes for contract negotiations - at least not if you don't want to look at the expensive extremes as well.