Quoting: KUUUCH
No problem, I love discussing hockey with other knowledgeable fans that know to how to converse without being a jack@ss lmao.
Who knows what the NHL GMs think of Risto, but after reading what the Capfriendly community has to say, it sounds like he's got more than enough hype & value attached to his name. So I wouldn't be too nervous about Betterall failing to receive a fair return for Risto. I know I pointed out his negatives, but he's still got a bit of arguments on his side (most attempting to defend/refute negative arguments like mine lol). He's still only 24 (far from old but he's almost, if not already, past his prime). If his end of season stats were increasing every year, he'd probably have a higher trade value. At least for me, if I was trading for him. But at the same time, he really didn't take long at all to start producing in the NHL... It's pretty impressive for an 8th overall pick to make his NHL debut the following year (Buffalo fans might've wished he stayed down another year lol, but you get my point). And on top of that, it only took him his 2nd full NHL season to score 40+ points (might've been his best year all around). Hedman didn't reach .5/ppg (points per game) until his 4th season. However, Hedman has since posted .742 ppg in his most recent 430 NHL games, which is why I brought up & determined that Risto's "plateau" of finalized season stats might be a minor "peak-indicator" that other GMs will most likely consider when negotiating for him... But Heddy's also 4 years older, so it really isn't fair to rule out a player's "peak-ETA" until age 26 at the soonest. Jeff Petry was drafted in 2006. Made his NHL Debut in 2010-11. Posted his career high for single season pts with 25 pts in 2012. That was his best yr until 2016-17, when he posted 3 solid seasons in a row with 28 pts, 42 pts, & 41 pts this yr (season hasn't ended yet). So his peak was (or for now is) age 31. Granted he's the #2 worst plus / minus leader behind Risto, he's proven he can put up 40 pts. I was just trying to use a good dman example, there's plenty of other notable NHL late bloomers.
So Risto has all of that available for arguing his worth lol. He's also top 20 in NHL defenseman points since 2016-17. And clearly he's a big kid @ 6'4 215 lbs, so he's got the "can't teach size" argument too. You can build a pretty appealing resume for the guy, these are the thing's I'd bring up if I were trading him.
But like I said before, the biggest factor for him specifically is that plus / minus. And I'll be the first to admit it, plus / minus stats can very much paint an ugly picture on the stat-sheet's of quality NHL players. Especially with how Buffalo has performed over the past 5-10 years (no offense to BUF, we all gotta rebuild at some point). But ultimately, if you're looking at the names on the negative portion of plus / minus dman leaders in the whole NHL over past 10 years... Not only is he the most negative overall, he has a lead, a big lead. Only 3 guys with -100 or worse... -102, -110, & -136 for Risto.
I think he'll be able to retrieve at least a 1st/2nd rounder + roster player / solid prospect. Depends on the teams involved and their needs. Sorry for rambling on hahaha. GO BOLTS!
That was most enlightening. I know I so not have all of hockey knowledge so I try to glean information from contributors. I rarely disagree with comments and try to find common ground or areas of agreement (well unless I post a trade like Reinhart and Scandella for Nugent-Hopkins and Larsson and listen to the Buffalo contingent explain to me how Buffalo is getting ripped off). I know a contributor as you knows your team better than I ever would, so I listen. TBH, I do not share my fellow Sabre contingent’s view of Ristolainen. I do not think he is as bad as you initially indicated, but I did not think his future was a bright as you say it may be. That is why I thought maybe Ristolainen was not part of the trade discussion but rather Bogosian. He is steady RHD defenseman more in the mold of Colburn, but with a little more offensive skill, who could be had for a lot less than many other defensemen. I jumped to the conclusion that Betterall may have been targeting Sergachev and may have been offering Bogosian, Beaulieu (to take the LHD roster spot of Sergachev) and a first for Callahan and Sergachev (I thought because his performance level dipped from last year, maybe BriseBois would consider trading him). Then I speculated Bogosian, Girgensons and first for Callahan and Gourde or Miller. Girgensons being an inexpensive version of Callahan, Betterall retaining Bogosian’s salary would help. Finally, I thought, Bogosian (50% retention) and Girgensons for Callahan a roster player of your choice and a first. I know a first may sound great but it is really only an early second, and the addition of Bogosian plus cutting the cap may equal a first, but I may have been dreaming here, I guess it all depends on how much value Bogosian has at half his salary. Finally, go Bolts, I hope BriseBois can do half as well as Yzerman. So far I am really please with Betterall but he inherited a mess. I posted a Sabres' team and even though they are trending toward last place
Quoting: KUUUCH
No problem, I love discussing hockey with other knowledgeable fans that know to how to converse without being a jack@ss lmao.
Who knows what the NHL GMs think of Risto, but after reading what the Capfriendly community has to say, it sounds like he's got more than enough hype & value attached to his name. So I wouldn't be too nervous about Betterall failing to receive a fair return for Risto. I know I pointed out his negatives, but he's still got a bit of arguments on his side (most attempting to defend/refute negative arguments like mine lol). He's still only 24 (far from old but he's almost, if not already, past his prime). If his end of season stats were increasing every year, he'd probably have a higher trade value. At least for me, if I was trading for him. But at the same time, he really didn't take long at all to start producing in the NHL... It's pretty impressive for an 8th overall pick to make his NHL debut the following year (Buffalo fans might've wished he stayed down another year lol, but you get my point). And on top of that, it only took him his 2nd full NHL season to score 40+ points (might've been his best year all around). Hedman didn't reach .5/ppg (points per game) until his 4th season. However, Hedman has since posted .742 ppg in his most recent 430 NHL games, which is why I brought up & determined that Risto's "plateau" of finalized season stats might be a minor "peak-indicator" that other GMs will most likely consider when negotiating for him... But Heddy's also 4 years older, so it really isn't fair to rule out a player's "peak-ETA" until age 26 at the soonest. Jeff Petry was drafted in 2006. Made his NHL Debut in 2010-11. Posted his career high for single season pts with 25 pts in 2012. That was his best yr until 2016-17, when he posted 3 solid seasons in a row with 28 pts, 42 pts, & 41 pts this yr (season hasn't ended yet). So his peak was (or for now is) age 31. Granted he's the #2 worst plus / minus leader behind Risto, he's proven he can put up 40 pts. I was just trying to use a good dman example, there's plenty of other notable NHL late bloomers.
So Risto has all of that available for arguing his worth lol. He's also top 20 in NHL defenseman points since 2016-17. And clearly he's a big kid @ 6'4 215 lbs, so he's got the "can't teach size" argument too. You can build a pretty appealing resume for the guy, these are the thing's I'd bring up if I were trading him.
But like I said before, the biggest factor for him specifically is that plus / minus. And I'll be the first to admit it, plus / minus stats can very much paint an ugly picture on the stat-sheet's of quality NHL players. Especially with how Buffalo has performed over the past 5-10 years (no offense to BUF, we all gotta rebuild at some point). But ultimately, if you're looking at the names on the negative portion of plus / minus dman leaders in the whole NHL over past 10 years... Not only is he the most negative overall, he has a lead, a big lead. Only 3 guys with -100 or worse... -102, -110, & -136 for Risto.
I think he'll be able to retrieve at least a 1st/2nd rounder + roster player / solid prospect. Depends on the teams involved and their needs. Sorry for rambling on hahaha. GO BOLTS!
That was most enlightening. I know I so not have all of hockey knowledge so I try to glean information from contributors. I rarely disagree with comments and try to find common ground or areas of agreement (well unless I post a trade like Reinhart and Scandella for Nugent-Hopkins and Larsson and listen to the Buffalo contingent explain to me how Buffalo is getting ripped off). I know a contributor as you knows your team better than I ever would, so I listen. TBH, I do not share my fellow Sabre contingent’s view of Ristolainen. I do not think he is as bad as you initially indicated, but I did not think his future was a bright as you say it may be. That is why I thought maybe Ristolainen was not part of the trade discussion but rather Bogosian. He is steady RHD defenseman more in the mold of Colburn, but with a little more offensive skill, who could be had for a lot less than many other defensemen. I jumped to the conclusion that Betterall may have been targeting Sergachev and may have been offering Bogosian, Beaulieu (to take the LHD roster spot of Sergachev) and a first for Callahan and Sergachev (I thought because his performance level dipped from last year, maybe BriseBois would consider trading him). Then I speculated Bogosian, Girgensons and first for Callahan and Gourde or Miller. Girgensons being an inexpensive version of Callahan, Betterall retaining Bogosian’s salary would help. Finally, I thought, Bogosian (50% retention) and Girgensons for Callahan a roster player of your choice and a first. I know a first may sound great but it is really only an early second, and the addition of Bogosian plus cutting the cap may equal a first, but I may have been dreaming here, I guess it all depends on how much value Bogosian has at half his salary. Finally, GO BOLTS. I love Yzerman as a player and even more as a GM. I hope BriseBois can do as well. I am really happy with Betterall but he inherited a mess. If they give decent contracts to their RFA's they will only have$8 to $11KK to sign UFA's, which is rather ironic that if Callahan is traded to Buffalo, it delays any possible playoff run by another year or more.