Forums/NHL

Leafs Cap trouble worse next year, much worse

Oct 2 at 12:07
#1
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Likes: 13
The trouble next year is even worse than one might expect
Which no one really seems to be talking about
What happens when the fake 11m in cap space disappears
With the expiration of the ltir from Horton + Clarkson because their contracts are up

With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271
This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players
Even if your really bullish of the cap going up, lets say it jumps to 85M
That still only about 17.5M for 11 guys or about 1.6M per signing on avg

I just can't see how Nylander can stay
Oct 2 at 12:26
#2
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,705
Likes: 285
Quoting: buxvet
The trouble next year is even worse than one might expect
Which no one really seems to be talking about
What happens when the fake 11m in cap space disappears
With the expiration of the ltir from Horton + Clarkson because their contracts are up

With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271
This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players
Even if your really bullish of the cap going up, lets say it jumps to 85M
That still only about 17.5M for 11 guys or about 1.6M per signing on avg

I just can't see how Nylander can stay


They won't lose $11m in cap space when Horton's and Clarkson's contracts are up. They just simply wouldn't need to put them on LTIR. It's (roughly) the same outcome.
Yes, they're going to have to be frugal next year (probably only room for about one big UFA signing) but it's not related to Horton/Clarkson.
Oct 2 at 1:09
#3
best poster
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 670
The Leafs cap situation has been brought up constantly since Marner signed, I think everyone is aware.

Right now Toronto has about 11 players under a million who take up about 7.75 million in cap space. This is likely what the team will be doing: signing depth players on minimum contracts and relying on their internal system.
Oct 2 at 1:10
#4
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,846
Likes: 2,895
I don't think they'll have major cap problems ... the problems they WILL have are that they won't be able to keep the UFAs. If they sign the UFAs then they'll have cap problems.
Oct 2 at 4:51
#5
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 458
Edited Oct 2 at 4:57
Quoting: buxvet
The trouble next year is even worse than one might expect
Which no one really seems to be talking about
What happens when the fake 11m in cap space disappears
With the expiration of the ltir from Horton + Clarkson because their contracts are up

With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271
This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players
Even if your really bullish of the cap going up, lets say it jumps to 85M
That still only about 17.5M for 11 guys or about 1.6M per signing on avg

I just can't see how Nylander can stay


"With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271. This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players"

How about some context ... he're are some other teams "12 most expensive contracts locked in for next year" ....

$75,374,999 = Tampa Bay Lightning
$69,617,855 = Winnipeg Jets
$67,722,857 = Philadelphia Flyers
$67,556,944 = Arizona Coyotes
$66,469,800 = New York Rangers
$65,663,333 = Vegas Golden Nights
$65,227,417 = San Jose Sharks

And most of these teams still have re-sign some key pieces.

As for the Leafs

After $2,000,000 - $4,000,000 in cap-growth .... the Leafs will have between $16,000,0000 - $19,000,000 to sign (or promote):

- 1 backup goalie ($800,000)
- 3 press-boxers ($2,100,000)
- 3 fourth liners ($2,400,000)
- Travis Dermott ($2,000,000 x 2)
- Jake Muzzin ($5,000,000 x 7)
- Tyson Barrie ($6,500,000 x 7)

TOTAL = $18,800,000


LOL this is not an issue at all ... they could trade Hyman is they have to ... or sign someone cheaper than Barrie.


Johnson - Matthews - Nylander
Kapanen - Tavares - Marner
T. Moore - Kerfoot - Hyman
ANYONE - ANYONE - ANYONE

Muzzin - Barrie
Rielly - Dermott
Sandin - Liljegren

Anderson
ANYONE
palhal liked this.
Oct 2 at 5:55
#6
best poster
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 670
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I don't think they'll have major cap problems ... the problems they WILL have are that they won't be able to keep the UFAs. If they sign the UFAs then they'll have cap problems.


Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I don't think they'll have major cap problems ... the problems they WILL have are that they won't be able to keep the UFAs. If they sign the UFAs then they'll have cap problems.


Going big on UFAs is generally a bad idea for most teams.
Oct 2 at 6:13
#7
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,174
Likes: 6,355
Quoting: buxvet
The trouble next year is even worse than one might expect
Which no one really seems to be talking about
What happens when the fake 11m in cap space disappears
With the expiration of the ltir from Horton + Clarkson because their contracts are up

With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271
This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players
Even if your really bullish of the cap going up, lets say it jumps to 85M
That still only about 17.5M for 11 guys or about 1.6M per signing on avg

I just can't see how Nylander can stay


This is crazy talk. First, teams aren't cap punished for having LTIR players and they don't receive any benefits either. The 11m in LTIR is not fake cap space.

Just trying to make a 2020/21 roster instead of getting got up in this LTIR nonsense. So let's go with there roster you suggested.
11 roster positions to be filled with 17m of cap. Liljegren, Sandin, lets says Timashov, Brooks, Gauthier....that's about 4.5m. 6 more with 12.5m. Mikheyev, Dermot 5m.... 4 more with 7.5m. So the Leafs can fill a 23 man roster easily. Trade a forwards for cap space or for a position of greater need, let's say a Dman. Happens all the time, that's why trades are made.
Oct 2 at 6:26
#8
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,174
Likes: 6,355
Quoting: drewjenks
"With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271. This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players"

How about some context ... he're are some other teams "12 most expensive contracts locked in for next year" ....


Thanks Drew for putting the Leafs cap situation in context with other NHL teams. For the past year(s) so much writing about the terrible Leaf cap situation

Now I believe the Leafs overpaid there big three RFAs about 4.5m too much., but all teams have contracts where they could've done better. Look at the Canucks, they have overpaid Ericsson 4.5m too much, gee 4.5m in one player. Tampa Bays NTC might really affect their cap next year if they can't jettison cap.
Trickster liked this.
Oct 2 at 9:02
#9
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 651
Quoting: buxvet
The trouble next year is even worse than one might expect
Which no one really seems to be talking about
What happens when the fake 11m in cap space disappears
With the expiration of the ltir from Horton + Clarkson because their contracts are up

With just 12 players signed for next year and a cap hit of 67.271
This only leaves 14.2M in cap space to sign 11 players
Even if your really bullish of the cap going up, lets say it jumps to 85M
That still only about 17.5M for 11 guys or about 1.6M per signing on avg

I just can't see how Nylander can stay


Best case for TOR: Nylander has a great season and they can trade him for maximum value next summer. If he's a 65-70 point player this season Dubas will have much more flexibility. Otherwise, he'll be crucified for trading him at a loss and be forced to keep him.
Oct 3 at 1:19
#10
BtZ's buttercup
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 1,252
There are teams tighter at the cap then Leafs for 2020-21, why is it not an issue for them?
oneX liked this.
Oct 3 at 1:24
#11
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,174
Likes: 6,355
Quoting: Trickster
There are teams tighter at the cap then Leafs for 2020-21, why is it not an issue for them?


Cause there are more Leaf haters than any other team. Interesting in the opening statement by the author post that the Leafs are in cap trouble because they have no players on LTIR next season. After years of being told by so many that the Leafs have cap problems because of LTIRs.
Trickster liked this.
Oct 3 at 2:07
#12
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: palhal
Cause there are more Leaf haters than any other team. Interesting in the opening statement by the author post that the Leafs are in cap trouble because they have no players on LTIR next season. After years of being told by so many that the Leafs have cap problems because of LTIRs.


bruins fan here, disagree on the first sentiment... nobody likes boston anything except well boston fans. Now my input that nobody asked about? what happens if liljegren just isnt that good. i mean leafs are banking on this d corp to be good this year. when they arent what happens? barrie is at 2.75m cap hit this year. thats it. quality defensemen arent going to come cheap. As of right now youve got reilly, sandin, liljegren, and dermott. not saying you cant get decent players but who would you be targeting in FA/trades at defenseman?
Oct 3 at 3:21
#13
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,174
Likes: 6,355
Quoting: hanson493


The original post and title had the Leafs having a much worse cap than last year. That's kinda nonsense.
You're right. The Leafs really have only Reilly and RFA Dermot next year. Don't think it too big of a stretch to think Sandin and Liljegren will be NHL ready.
Yep the Leafs might only have about 7.5m to fill the three Dmen positions once Dermot and Mikheyov are signed. If that's not enough cap $$$, you're right a forward Johnson, Kapanen, or Nylander might have to be traded for cap reasons so there is cap for Dmen. Such is the nature of trades to restructure your team.
Sure the Leafs are banking this group to good this year, just like all teams. Doesn't have much room for error (injuries) though The top five fine but the next one or two is questionable. Sandin, Marincin and Holl, cross your fingers.
Your statement "Barrie is at 2.75m this year, that's it." Are you implying Barrie is the only good Leaf Dman this year?
Oct 3 at 3:49
#14
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: palhal


I think sandin might be nhl ready now and his game could grow, im saying i dont think liljegrens game is ready and i dont think he will hit his potential. im saying between barrie at 2.75 and ceci at 4.5 as well as muzzin at 4. you arent getting the same quality for the price youll pay. You arent getting a barrie for 2.75 again. you overpaid for muzzin. Im simply asking who are the targets for to fill those 2 d slots. youll have roughly 8m to spend on what is likely 2 top 4 dmen or a top 4 and a top 6 hoping sandin is top 4 ready next year.
Oct 3 at 4:10
#15
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,174
Likes: 6,355
Quoting: hanson493
I think sandin might be nhl ready now and his game could grow, im saying i dont think liljegrens game is ready and i dont think he will hit his potential. im saying between barrie at 2.75 and ceci at 4.5 as well as muzzin at 4. you arent getting the same quality for the price youll pay. You arent getting a barrie for 2.75 again. you overpaid for muzzin. Im simply asking who are the targets for to fill those 2 d slots. youll have roughly 8m to spend on what is likely 2 top 4 dmen or a top 4 and a top 6 hoping sandin is top 4 ready next year.


I've always thought the numbering of positions is kinda meaningless. Some players play the PP, some PK, tough to figure out who is more important. Besides if the so called third pairing is playing 12 minutes a game usually at even strength, they better NHL competent. 8m for 2 spots? Don't know who would be targeted. I still think a winger will be traded for more cap space, Leafs are optimistic they pro depth at wing so a promotion can take an NHL winger spot.
Oct 3 at 4:57
#16
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 617
Quoting: palhal
I've always thought the numbering of positions is kinda meaningless. Some players play the PP, some PK, tough to figure out who is more important. Besides if the so called third pairing is playing 12 minutes a game usually at even strength, they better NHL competent. 8m for 2 spots? Don't know who would be targeted. I still think a winger will be traded for more cap space, Leafs are optimistic they pro depth at wing so a promotion can take an NHL winger spot.


Theres loads of things they can do, cap is pretty easily maneuverable. if you move one of hyman/kapanen/johnsson you can get a massive upgrade in quality dman.
 
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