Forums/Armchair-GM

Trade for Wingers

Created by: moli92
Initial Creation Date: Oct 29, 2019
Published: Oct 29 at 12:37 pm
Team: 2019-20 Colorado Avalanche
Team Explanation
If the Avs were gonna go all in anyway they might as well trade for wingers now while they need them instead of waiting until the TDL
Trades
COL
  1. Toffoli, Tyler
LAK
  1. Helleson, Drew [Reserve List]
  2. 2021 2nd round pick (COL)
COL
  1. Hall, Taylor
Additional Details:
Hall signs 6x10
NJD
  1. Jost, Tyson
  2. Zadorov, Nikita
  3. Kaut, Martin
  4. 2020 1st round pick (COL)
Buyouts
  • Brooks Orpik: $1,500,000
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Tyson Barrie: $2,750,000 (50%)
Buried
  • Kevin Connauton: $300,000 ($1,375,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
COL
COL
FLA
COL
2021
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
2022
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$76,677,499$0$2,682,500$4,822,501

Roster

Left WingCenterRight Wing
NJD
Hall, Taylor
$6,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
COL
MacKinnon, Nathan
$6,300,000
C, RW
UFA - 4
LAK
Toffoli, Tyler
$4,600,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
COL
Burakovsky, André
$3,250,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
COL
Kadri, Nazem
$4,500,000
C
NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Donskoi, Joonas
$3,900,000
RW
UFA - 4
COL
Wilson, Colin
$2,600,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
COL
Kamenev, Vladislav
$750,000
C
RFA - 1
COL
Compher, J.T.
$3,500,000
RW, C
UFA - 4
COL
Nieto, Matt
$1,975,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
COL
Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard
$1,800,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
COL
Calvert, Matt
$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
COL
Girard, Samuel
$728,333
LD
UFA - 1
COL
Johnson, Erik
$6,000,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 4
COL
Grubauer, Philipp
$3,333,333
G
UFA - 2
COL
Cole, Ian
$4,250,000
LD
UFA - 2
COL
Makar, Cale
$880,833
RD
RFA - 2
COL
Francouz, Pavel
$950,000
G
UFA - 1
COL
Graves, Ryan
$735,000
LD
RFA - 1
COL
Timmins, Conor
$925,000
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
COL
Barberio, Mark
$1,450,000
LD
UFA - 1
COL
Rantanen, Mikko
$9,250,000
RW
UFA - 6
COL
Landeskog, Gabriel
$5,571,429
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
COL
Rosén, Calle
$750,000
LD
UFA - 2
COL
Nichushkin, Valeri
$850,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1

Special Teams

Power Play 1
Toffoli, T.
Kadri, N.
Hall, T.
MacKinnon, N.
Makar, C.
Power Play 2
Wilson, C.
Kamenev, V.
Burakovsky, A.
Donskoi, J.
Girard, S.
Penalty Kill 1
Bellemare, P.
Calvert, M.
Cole, I.
Johnson, E.
Penalty Kill 2
Nieto, M.
Compher, J.
Graves, R.
Timmins, C.

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Oct 29 at 12:43
#1
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 305
Likes: 47
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus
Oct 29 at 12:45
#2
Dr.
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 578
Likes: 158
I don't know if we need to panic that much yet. This happened to us during the home stretch last year and we are better now than the team we ice without rants and landy then. This is the whole reason we signed depth players, so when we have injuries we don't need to make major changes.
Oct 29 at 12:45
#3
Dr.
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 578
Likes: 158
Quoting: Devilsfan101
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus


You're going to be disappointed in halls return this year
Oct 29 at 12:47
#4
BuFfaLoFan
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,864
Likes: 534
Quoting: Devilsfan101
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus


Bruh...Byram is worth Hall +
Oct 29 at 12:52
#5
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 521
Likes: 140
Edited Oct 29 at 12:59
Quoting: Devilsfan101
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus


That's an overpayment. Devils aren't getting A+ prospect if Taylor Hall wants out of New Jersey. This isn't in the same scenario as other trade where players wanted out. (e.g. 1st Duchene trade, Eric Lindros trade or Paul George trade)

If Hall is included in a sign-and-trade, they should look at the Mark Stone trade as a benchmark.
- 1st round pick
- Brannstrom type of prospect (A or A-)
- Depth player for salary dump purpose

If Hall is shipped as rental, Devils will probably get a package that is slightly better than Duchene.
- 1st round pick
- B prospect (prospect better than the Abramov and Davidsson)
BuFfaLOFaN liked this.
Oct 29 at 12:56
#6
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,687
Likes: 1,690
Quoting: Devilsfan101
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus


avs are not trading Byram

So there will never be a deal bw the 2....good talk
BuFfaLOFaN liked this.
Oct 29 at 12:58
#7
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,687
Likes: 1,690
no need for this. Over reaction trades IMO.

Avs still have Bowers, Kaut, Greer in the AHL, and have yet to play Kamanev in a game bc of the teams depth. Play the kids and weather the storm

The talent is still there, especially under a good coach in Bednar
Oct 29 at 1:11
#8
Discord COL's GM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,639
Likes: 1,765
Makar/Byram +1st+Jost+another middle tier piece.
Oct 29 at 1:12
#9
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 15,810
Likes: 3,840
Quoting: Devilsfan101
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus


Rather than make up this fictitious offer based on nothing, find a trade that happened already in the last 20 years and use that as basis for your argument. It'll be way more realistic and might actually convince someone. Plus, NJ doesn't necessarily have the option to sell Hall with a potential extension. That tactic was used maybe once on a good player in history and then GM's smartened up. They realized that not adding a 8th year on a contract is a GOOD thing. Most UFA's are in their mid 30's by that time and more than likely are declining. They might have to pay a little more in cap but not having to do that 8th year is sometimes a good thing on a player whose 28-29 years old already.

Also its not that Hall isn't as good as Byram or vice versa, its that NJ does not hold power in this negotiation if for whatever reason Hall is not being resigned. (On the flipside, if they resign him and then try to trade him, they can then ask for anything they want)'

All they have is market demand and no team is offering a top 5 pick prospect for a guy they technically could have a chance to sign as a free agent in a years time for free..... If the cost for Hall extended is Byram+, no team will accept, NJ will be forced to either bring down their price or lose him for nothing. They're choice. Simply using other star players that were traded as pending UFA's as examples, the cost to get Hall will be way less than you think. Not garbage but not "stupidly amazing" either.

Erik Karlsson, a future HOF'er, got a collection of picks and B prospects. Not one of those prospects was even a blue chip. Norris was the best they thing they got and he is by no means anything crazy good. They may get lucky with SJ 1st round pick this year as SJ may be a lottery team his year but I think no one was expecting that to happen when this trade was done.
EzioUchiha liked this.
Oct 29 at 1:24
#10
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 306
Likes: 49
Quoting: EzioUchiha
That's an overpayment. Devils aren't getting A+ prospect if Taylor Hall wants out of New Jersey. This isn't in the same scenario as other trade where players wanted out. (e.g. 1st Duchene trade, Eric Lindros trade or Paul George trade)

If Hall is included in a sign-and-trade, they should look at the Mark Stone trade as a benchmark.
- 1st round pick
- Brannstrom type of prospect (A or A-)
- Depth player for salary dump purpose

If Hall is shipped as rental, Devils will probably get a package that is slightly better than Duchene.
- 1st round pick
- B prospect (prospect better than the Abramov and Davidsson)


Don't want to be nitpicky, but the Stone trade was a second, not a first.
Spanky227 liked this.
Oct 29 at 1:32
#11
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 626
Likes: 206
Quoting: Devilsfan101
If it doesn’t include Byram it’s a no. Because it has an extension it’s Byram plus


You're right, what are we thinking? How about Byram, Kaut, Makar, Jost, Rantanen, Bleackley, MacKinnon, Forsberg, Landeskog and Hishon. That should be just under what Hall's worth.
Smitty426 liked this.
Oct 29 at 1:34
#12
Thread Starter
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 1,058
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Makar/Byram +1st+Jost+another middle tier piece.


Are you insane
Oct 29 at 1:46
#13
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,687
Likes: 1,690
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Makar/Byram +1st+Jost+another middle tier piece.


why do you want to hurt the avs frown
Oct 29 at 1:58
#14
MNBassman
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,432
Likes: 1,017
Fiala, Donato, and Zucker are all available...
Oct 29 at 2:10
#15
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 521
Likes: 140
Edited Oct 29 at 2:20
Quoting: Chrismurtagh
Don't want to be nitpicky, but the Stone trade was a second, not a first.


Forgot to mention that the return from a Hall sign-and-trade should have a better return than the Stone sign-and-trade considering Hall just won the Hart trophy and consider the fact that Dorion is the best at making bad trades. (even though the Stone trade was his best trade)
Chrismurtagh liked this.
Oct 29 at 2:16
#16
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 305
Likes: 47
Quoting: BlastnyFromThePastny
You're right, what are we thinking? How about Byram, Kaut, Makar, Jost, Rantanen, Bleackley, MacKinnon, Forsberg, Landeskog and Hishon. That should be just under what Hall's worth.


How about you give us a top prospect eh?
Maybe you just don’t realize how good Hall really is and why he won Over MAC in Hart.
Oct 29 at 2:41
#17
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 626
Likes: 206
Quoting: Devilsfan101
How about you give us a top prospect eh?
Maybe you just don’t realize how good Hall really is and why he won Over MAC in Hart.


Good shot! He did beat out MacKinnon for the Hart. Maybe I really don't know how good he is. Maybe I'll spend the next 4 years that Colorado is paying Mack just over 6 million and watch Byram develop into a stud defenseman while I mull it over.
Oct 29 at 6:18
#18
Discord COL's GM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,639
Likes: 1,765
Quoting: coga16
why do you want to hurt the avs frown


Quoting: coga16
why do you want to hurt the avs frown


I personally don’t but that’s what I see as a fair trade.
Oct 29 at 6:20
#19
Discord COL's GM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,639
Likes: 1,765
Quoting: moli92
Are you insane


That for Taylor Hall on an extension no that’s fair. You just think that Avs can get anything for spare parts. Jost isn’t the most sought after guy anymore nor is your first round pick as a playoff caliber team.
Oct 29 at 7:44
#20
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,687
Likes: 1,690
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
I personally don’t but that’s what I see as a fair trade.


that's crazy man, way over valuing Hall
Oct 29 at 8:19
#21
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 305
Likes: 47
Quoting: BlastnyFromThePastny
Good shot! He did beat out MacKinnon for the Hart. Maybe I really don't know how good he is. Maybe I'll spend the next 4 years that Colorado is paying Mack just over 6 million and watch Byram develop into a stud defenseman while I mull it over.


damn. I guess its my "incomptence" that your mad about but to be honest to get a great player you have to give. Quanity over Quality btw.
Oct 29 at 11:14
#22
Thread Starter
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 1,058
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
That for Taylor Hall on an extension no that’s fair. You just think that Avs can get anything for spare parts. Jost isn’t the most sought after guy anymore nor is your first round pick as a playoff caliber team.


How? what comparables do you have? when was the last time a team traded a 4th overall pick stud D man + 1st rounder + 21 year old NHL C + another "middle tier piece" (whatever that means) for a star winger?

I see the Mark Stone trade as a pretty similar comparable. Stone (who agreed to an extension before the trade, but didnt officially sign it until later: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/26078667/golden-knights-acquire-mark-stone-trade-senators) got a 2nd rounder, Brannstrom, and Oscar Lindberg.

Now compare that to what you proposed:

Makar (or Byram) > Brannstrom
1st rounder > 2nd rounder
Jost > Lindberg
"middle tier piece" > nothing

thats not even close.
Oct 29 at 11:31
#23
Discord COL's GM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,639
Likes: 1,765
Quoting: moli92
How? what comparables do you have? when was the last time a team traded a 4th overall pick stud D man + 1st rounder + 21 year old NHL C + another "middle tier piece" (whatever that means) for a star winger?

I see the Mark Stone trade as a pretty similar comparable. Stone (who agreed to an extension before the trade, but didnt officially sign it until later: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/26078667/golden-knights-acquire-mark-stone-trade-senators) got a 2nd rounder, Brannstrom, and Oscar Lindberg.

Now compare that to what you proposed:

Makar (or Byram) > Brannstrom
1st rounder > 2nd rounder
Jost > Lindberg
"middle tier piece" > nothing

thats not even close.


Hall also has better credentials than Stone does. Hall has a MVP with him a nice shiny piece of award. Also the circumstances surrounding Ottawa and Stone weren’t the best Stone wasn’t willing to sign a contract. Hall is so very big difference in circumstances. Another thing you have forgotten is that New Jersey also has a chance for a playoff spot, Ottawa did not they were actually just trying to flunk the season hoping for the best. Also a more comparable if you even wanna say that would be looking at more valuable piece like Karlsson it might not be the same set of skills and maybe not same position but Karlsson is the best in his position I still have the opinion Hall is the best in his.
Oct 29 at 11:35
#24
Discord COL's GM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,639
Likes: 1,765
Quoting: coga16
that's crazy man, way over valuing Hall


You really believe Hall is a spare part lol. Then I think I am just going to refrain from arguing. He has a MVP under his belt and his credentials are very good. He might of had an injury in the past but how is that going to stop him. This is a new era you aren’t gonna get him for Spare Parts lol. Colorado fans are delusional if that is how we are going to play this lol.
Oct 30 at 12:07
#25
Thread Starter
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 1,058
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Hall also has better credentials than Stone does. Hall has a MVP with him a nice shiny piece of award. Also the circumstances surrounding Ottawa and Stone weren’t the best Stone wasn’t willing to sign a contract. Hall is so very big difference in circumstances. Another thing you have forgotten is that New Jersey also has a chance for a playoff spot, Ottawa did not they were actually just trying to flunk the season hoping for the best. Also a more comparable if you even wanna say that would be looking at more valuable piece like Karlsson it might not be the same set of skills and maybe not same position but Karlsson is the best in his position I still have the opinion Hall is the best in his.


new jersey is literally in last place in the league (2nd last if you want to use point percentage) and is already 8 points back of a playoff spot. its still early in the season but its not an insignificant sample size. I bet if NJD continues like this Hall wont sign with them anyway. And for the record imo Stone is better than Hall anyway. But either way they arent that far enough apart in value for you to suggest a trade like that which towers over the return for Hall.
 
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