Is this the latest delusional justification as to why a backup is worth a top 6 forward, a 2nd and a prospect? If it is, its still nuts.

why are leafs fans not targeting stalock. he seems like the perfect piece for them...

I am not sure any backup is a "Need" I think preventing 5 breakaways every game is a greater need.

rangers win




obviously

Not to be outdone with delusion, some posters think a 5 ft 10, 6 goal forward on one of the top goal scoring teams in the league is a top 6 forward.

Hit the nail on the head..... I never realized his stats were this bad haha. Producing more like a 3rd line guy.

even if he was considered a middle 6 forward, the delusion stems from wanting a 6' goalie, 178lb who has a a 3.11 SV% and a .910 GAA. With the way the Leafs forwards, and defense are playing, the goaltender for Toronto will be facing some high quality shots and likely multiple breakaways.

I'm sure a concrete wall would still let in goals with the Leafs backcheck/inability to play defense

hes been injured and he is more a middle six fwd, plays PK and PP and a cheap contract.

what Goryiev ... a back up goaltender capable of what 20-25 games and will be apart of 12-15 wins in that time ??? or does everyone think hes a starting goalie in the making?

its funny that everyone on here blast leafs agms for any trade saying they over value someone on their team and nobody wants their crap and then turn around and say they should take everyones back up or bottom six fwd and pay through the nose.

I don't think Dubas has been fleeced on a trade yet the Ceci trade go the leafs out of 5 years of zaitsev and cleared cap. Kadri wasn't going to do what hes doing in Col playing 3rd line minutes and i don't think that trade turned out the way the leafs wanted but kerfoot could still turn into something and barrie .. well hes good for a 2.75m D man .. hes just not what he was in Col but im not sure who could have predicted that.

i think a 2nd is more that enough for a little proven backup, throw in a roster player and a b prospect and thats an overpay.

That certainly is a delusion.....because said forward....uh.....actually has played almost every minute he's been on the ice for this season in the top 6 on one of the top scoring teams in the league. I guess delusion and facts are the same thing as long as you just don't care what reality is and just want emotional validation instead of knowledgeable debate.

He also missed a long stretch of time. Still producing close to .5 points a game but hey why bother looking at reality when you can pretend away facts to support your own opinion.

I would like to point out that Andreas Johnsson's stats this year are every bit as good as Derek Grant's. Of course, Grant's faceoff percentage is much higher.

So what you're saying is that a 40 point guy is a top 6 forward? cause if so you're still wrong

Yeah 40 point players are top 6 guys. You don't get many 2nd liners getting production like that. You get some sure but not many, and Johnsson could easily produce more, he has had really bad shooting like this season.

Also remember when everyone on here said "Nylander is just a middle 6 winger"

top 6 means they can play on the 1st or second line. Johnsson should be on the 2nd or 3rd line, therefore middle 6. Im not sure what you dont get about this.

As for Nylander. That was because a couple people started to trash him and it just continued to spiral. The whole contract situation made everthing so much worse. Also, they were saying that when he was having a bad year, he was not a top 6 player last year. He was on pace for 40 point meaning MIDDLE SIX player

Johnsson has been playing on the 3rd line since he's been back but let's clarify something. That's only because of chemistry. Hyman Matthews have this supernatural chemistry together. Matthews didn't look the same with Johnsson. Tavares got almost instant chemistry with Kerfoot and Nylander so you're not breaking up that line. Johnsson can play on a 1st line, 2nd line or 3rd line. Plus he plays both special teams if needed so yes he's a top 6 winger just not currently playing cause the team is stacked at wing hence why he's available in the 1st place. As for the trade... it's an overpay. Goalies just don't have value in today's NHL. Grubauer went in a trade dump. Hutchinson was traded for a 6th and a C prospect and that was when he had potential. Teams aren't going to trade a cost controlled "top 9 forward" with top line potential, a prospect that even I forgot we had and (hopefully) a 50-62 overall pick.

Johnsson played on Matthews wing for most of last season and pretty much all of this season before he got hurt. That is top 6. During his time with Matthews he's scored at close to a 50 point pace. That is top 6 production. Saying he is middle six is just the usual, "Leaf players are overrated" rhetoric that has no substantiating evidence to support it.

It was the same with Nylander and it's the same with Rielly this season. Just trolls hating the Leafs and other believing it's got merit.

Oh I see, so Dominik Simon is a top 6 forward cause he's playing on the first line with Crosby. Danton Heinen played with Bergeron and Marchand for a lot of last year so that certainly means hes a top 6 forward.

Top 6 forwards are 1st liners, and good 2nd liners
Middle 6 forwards are decent 2nd liners, and good 3rd liners
Bottom 6 forwards are ok 3rd liners and 4th liners

Johnsson is a good 3rd liner, and a decent 2nd liner. Hes a good middle six forward.

A guy plays on the top line of a team for a full year before getting hurt and getting shuffled down when he returns to find his footing and that means he can't play on the top line. Why? Because you don't want that to be the reality because then your whole argument is silly.

Johnsson isn't going to be the top option for #1 LW on most teams, but he's very much top 6 on a lot of teams. Like many on here, fans of other teams really don't want to admit that TO has a lot of high quality forwards. They much prefer to believe that all their players are overrated.

Remember when people said Nylander was just a 60 point winger with a terrible contract?

Or that Marner was only good because of Tavares?

Or that Kapanen was only good because of Matthews?

Or how about that still most people on here say Matthews is the worst in his own zone? That is despite ample evidence that he's actually getting extremely good defensively and is in the top 10 in take aways in the NHL.

The reality is, fans don't know ****.

Just because other people said that doesn't make what I said not true. Obviously anyone who said that about Marner and Nylander are idiotic. As for Kapanen, playing with Matthews is automatically going to make you put up more points than you would usually, he's just that good. I think Kapanen is in the same realm as Johnsson (maybe a bit better cause he has unreal wheels), they're both good middle-six players. They can't drive their own top 6 line but can be very serviceable on the 2nd line and a very good 3rd liner. Again, middle 6 players

Apart from Kapanen putting up similar numbers this season with barely any time with Matthews. Kapanen and Johnsson are both 2nd liners on a lot of team. Kap 1RW on more than 1 team. People like to lower their value because TO has so many other top end players and fans can't come to grips with them having as much talent as they actually have. If Johnsson or Kap are on a 3rd line, your team is stacked.