Was Dorian the GM who pulled the trigger on Karlsson trade?

Dorion is terrible, Trent Mann is amazing at evaluating talent.

What talent needs evaluation when you are sitting with picks 1 and 3 in a deep draft with Lafreniere, Byfield and Stutzle.
Imagine taking MacKinnon and Seth Jones in 2013, McDavid and Marner 2015, Stamkos and Pietrangelo 2008, Crosby and Price in 2005.

Like every GM, he has his wins and his losses, but I honestly think he's done a good job steering Ottawa through their rebuild. Whether or not it was a good deal at the time, the Karlsson trade seems to be working out really well for the Sens, as have the Duchene and Dzingel trades. Brannstrom is taking his time to develop, but with how the team is expected to get better, he's fairly on schedule as well. Also got the Islanders to overpay for Pageau and good value back in 2018 for Brassard.

The Zibanejad trade was bad, no doubt about that, as was the original Duchene trade and even though he had little control over the Mike Hoffman situation, that's a lowlight as well.

But with where the Senators are now compared to how we looked at them about two years ago, I think they're in a really good spot, in large part to Dorian's actions. Gonna have to agree with you

As a GM yes he’s done unpopular moves but most have worked in your favor I see a young team that’s going to improve the next 2-3 years and with all the draft capital Dorian has built up Trent job is a lot easier I see this team getting a cup in 5-7 years and playoffs in 2 seasons and then consistent for the next 5-7 years after that if not more

Sharks will trade you Karlsson and Wilson for Dorian lol

Whos's talking about this draft?

He has picked gems in the late rounds

2019
Pinto 32
2018
Grunden 95
Mandolese 157
2017
Formenton 47
Batherson 121
2016
Dahlen 42
Lajoie133
Nurmi 163

Outlier trades just like the Matt Duchene trade. No one expected Sharks and Sens to sink to the bottom of the league right after trading for Erik Karlsson and Matt Duchene trade respectively. Sakic and Dorion look like genius w/ those trades but I'm sure both NEVER expected to get a top pick. Aside from that, Dorion is a bad GM. Traded Hoffman, Stone (Stone is worth Brannstrom++), Zibanejad (yeah Brassard was key in the Sens' ECF run but Sens were still impatient w/ Zibanejad's development).



Dorion is actually a pretty good scout but a bad GM. Bryan Murray is an example of good GM because he was able to build and maintain a good team despite having Melnyk.

I mean tell me a GM that can land 2 top 4 picks in a deep draft. He pulled that off with luck and now looks like a genius

You can fault trades in hindsight. But in the end you have to look at where your team is now and where will the be in 2-3 years. Love or hate all those trades the senators are set up to flourish in the near future this will be a powerhouse team for a while and you have to give Dorian credit for that!

This is the best take i have actually read. 100% accurate

He's not the problem. He's had to get really creative in his time with Ottawa, and while I might not agree with all his moves, he's not always operating in a good position for leverage, given the ownership situation.

I think to be fair, a lot of credit is owed to Trent Mann and his scouting team (Which Dorion definitely had a hand in building), which has done an excellent job of identifying value players in the Draft (JBD, Pinto, Formenton, Batherson), as well as which prospects to target in trades (Norris, Brannstrom, Abramov). Also his brother Troy Mann who has been a fantastic Development coach in the AHL. Wouldn't be surprised if he landed an NHL job at some point.

That said the Sens really need to find someone who can assume the role of being that public face of the Organization, and let Dorion step back. Very rarely does he instill confidence in the fanbase when he speaks. It's just not something he's good at, and I don't think he's ever been overly comfortable with doing it. They never found an adequate person to fill the void Brian Murray left. Having a firmer hand would also be nice during contract negotiations.

Overall, I think he's done a fine job as GM given the circumstances, and he's probably as good as you could hope for under Melnyk. I think he's capable of much more if the constraints of ownership were lifted.

My goodness, don't mistake drafting well with being a good GM. He's made more booboo's than woohoo's.

Ever since the teams last conference final appearance, its been an absolute dumpster fire. This team has lots of promise now because of good drafting and being a terrible team 4 years straight but by no means should Dorion be hailed a genius either.

There have been bad trades and GM's do make those. But the Karlsson trade is looking like a win, then the Pageau trade. I'm saying he traded all these high value players at the right time so the team can bear the fruit.

I agree with this overall assessment and I'd add that his owner...isn't exactly lavish...to put it nicely. Hard to pin team success on the GM when he can't go out and sign real talent. So he's resorted to the draft and traded players when their value is maximized.

***EDIT*** Now HOPEFULLY for Sens fans, those plethora of picks don't walk away for nothing in return when (my prediction) players (for example...Shane Pinto just 1 example) can't find an NHL roster spot and only has 1 year left @ UND. That's not a hard choice to go back 1 more year.

He’s not great, but he’s definitely solid. Not even close to some of the worst GMs out there. He could probably shine if he worked for a different owner

Very true. I hope Melnyk's incompetence as an owner doesn't hinder the team too badly when they are ready to compete again. Last thing they need is to get trapped in the rebuild/retool cycle because they can't make that leap when they're ready to.

To be fair, at the time, Brannstrom was seen as a future Karlsson, with a really high ceiling, which he still has. Brannstrom could be better than Stone. Brannstrom is honestly really good, he just needs a few years to grow and improve. And Dorion tried hard to get a first rounder from teams but he said that no team would give it, and Stone would've walked away as an FA, apparently his contract in LV, if signed in Ottawa, is equivalent to $13 million. Dorion got what he good, and Brannstrom is excellent. Not to mention, he got a pick which he used to trade up and get a potential goalie of the future, Sogaard

Idk if you look at his trade history, most of his major screw ups all had some outside circumstances that probably prevented him from making the best deal possible.

Zibanejad deal was bad, and probably his worst trade to date. That said, Melnyk made that deal worse by axing a deal on the draft floor, insisting that Brassard's bonus money be paid by New York. Plus they got some value back, but definitely not enough considering the player ZBad became.

Next you have a few minor deals, acquiring Wingels, Condon, Stalberg and Burrows who were all important parts of that 2017 run, and you didn't give up anything meaningful. Also getting a 2nd for Lazar which was good.

The Duchene trade was not very good, but they did a pretty good job of returning some value back in the end, and ultimately that deal was sparked about cost certainty and not wanting to pay Turris. Again money.

Getting out from Phaneuf's deal was lowkey amazing. Gave up nothing, and got out from a terrible deal that he had nothing to do with bringing in.

The Hoffman deal was brutal, but they were always going to do terribly in that situation.

Karlsson deal is straight up fantastic.

Nilsson deal is a win, Duchene trade was good, Dzingel trade was great.

The Stone deal I don't think they got enough back for, but they got Erik Brannstrom which is still a huge piece and will be for the next decade it looks like.

I didn't love the Zaitsev deal, but getting Connor Brown makes it a win for me.

Arty for Smith was a big W for Ottawa.

Then there's the Namestnikov trades which were basically a wash, then he more or less killed it at the Deadline. Would have preferred to keep DeMelo, but it's not really a big deal.

San Jose has a half decent season and you never post this. He isnt horrible but thinking that he was genius to get 2 top 5 picks when it's really just luck is a bad take.

Yeah some decent trades for sure but the title is he is a really good GM. I think there isn't enough to warrant being a really good GM. Even though that is subjective in a way.

Also I think saying the Karlsson trade is genius is rich. They LUCKED into that pick. Just like Colorado lucked into Byram. Both teams having their colossal down spiral is absolutely unheard of. Both times the GM making that trade was prepared for a 15-30 pick, not a top 4 one. It was complete luck that the value of those trades was as high as it was.

Also also, I think the way he has handled the post conference final appearance season until just last year has been poor. Lost of team feuds and things that should have been mitigated by him that weren't. There is more that goes into being a good GM then just winning a trades IMO.