Forums/Armchair-GM

No my account has not been hacked this is based on Leafs4life34 post

Created by: Pens3lieve
Initial Creation Date: Nov 21, 2020
Published: Nov 21, 2020 at 10:28
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
this is based on a post by @Leafs4life34 's post...
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2112256

the PIT side of this. while a trade similar to this one may eventually find equal value, it hurts the Penguins D-core so much that I don't see the point at all.

a Marner/Holl for Rust/Letang trade would put the Pens D pairings looking like:
Dumoulin-Marino
Pettersson-Ceci
Matheson-Ruhwedel
Riikola

not good for a team that for the first time in a while actually has some decent D and potential to grow.

That being said, if the Pens start out slow say 4-9-2 or something bad in the first 15-20 games in a shortened season (prob)..... then GMJR (who has already restructured all but a few players from the cup teams) might resort to drastic measures to give this team a kick (I think Dumo or Rust or maybe the next level-Letang)

if a crazy move like this happened, the pairings would be weak and poor fits.
dumoulin/pettersson/ceci/ruhwedel are Defensive D
Marino/riikola are two way D
matheson/POJ are offensive turnover machines.
not to mention the right side is weak...(unless maniscalso is the next marino)...

now I think matheson can rebound if given a good partner (NOT CECI). If matheson finds his game and plays like he did to get THAT contract, plus Riikola can actually play, and POJ is ready then we have yet another LHD logjam. Pettersson prob has the most value. either he or Dumo would need to go. for this example I moved Pettersson to a young team for a better RHD than Ceci and a good #3C option. I'd probably rather move Dumo bc he's older but then who is the vet on the backend???

some have said Poulin is comfortable on either wing which would be nice, and also that he needs a bigger NHL challenge. I'd love to see him come up. the new look 3rd line has a shot to be great.

even removing the crazy TORONTO trade from this, the LHD issue will have to be addressed sometime.
Trades
PIT
  1. Marner, Mitchell
  2. Holl, Justin
Additional Details:
A big duffel bag of $$$.
TOR
  1. Rust, Bryan
  2. Letang, Kris
PIT
  1. Zacha, Pavel
  2. Carrick, Connor
NJD
  1. Pettersson, Marcus
PIT
  1. 2021 5th round pick (ANA)
ANA
  1. Sceviour, Colton
Additional Details:
anywhere
PIT
  1. 2021 6th round pick (ANA)
ANA
  1. Ceci, Cody
Additional Details:
anywhere
Buyouts
  • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
PIT
PIT
ANA
ANA
PIT
WSH
ANA
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2023
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,467,167$0$1,062,500$2,032,833
Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
PIT
Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
PIT
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 2
PIT
McCann, Jared
$2,940,000
LW, C
RFA - 2
NJD
Zacha, Pavel
$2,250,000
C
RFA - 2
PIT
Poulin, Samuel
$894,167
LW, RW
RFA - 3
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
$3,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Marino, John
$925,000
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
$3,500,000
G
UFA - 3
PIT
Matheson, Michael
$4,875,000
LD
UFA - 6
TOR
Holl, Justin
$2,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
DeSmith, Casey
$1,250,000
G
UFA - 2
PIT
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
$863,333
LD
RFA - 2
NJD
Carrick, Connor
$1,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
$1,150,000
LD
UFA - 2
PIT
Jankowski, Mark
$700,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Rodrigues, Evan
$700,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
PIT
O'Connor, Drew
$925,000
LW
RFA - 2
PIT
Maniscalco, Joshua
$853,333
RD
RFA - 3
PIT
Lee, Cameron
$925,000
LD
RFA - 2

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Nov 21, 2020 at 10:32
#1
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
@BradTolliverGoalie @mhockey91 @Sidstick87 @NoWah49 @Marcsnack @MitchMarnerElite @hockeygm @Geno_the_Hero @dgfresh78 @Marino4Norris @Yojimbo @penguindude87 @PensGM2019 @Theozler @gmack95 @Eddy @HockeyTownUSA69 @Sid_the_kid_875948 @penslover8771 @PGHBOB69

do you agree with my logic against the toronto deal?
also what would you do to sort out the LHD situation? taking into account Seattle, POJ, Matheson's potential improvement, etc.?
Nov 21, 2020 at 10:55
#2
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,532
Cash isnt allowable in trades anymore.
Nov 21, 2020 at 11:35
#3
Pens were the best
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
do you agree with my logic against the toronto deal?
also what would you do to sort out the LHD situation? taking into account Seattle, POJ, Matheson's potential improvement, etc.?[/quote]

Value wise the trade is probably fair but like you said it hurts PIT’s D too much. IDK if Marino is ready for a top pair role, Holl is a decent 4th defender but playing alongside Matheson his play would suffer.

Perhaps do Marner + 1st for Letang + Rust, dump Matheson, keep Pettersson & offersheet Cernak for like 3.5 million. Your defence would be Dumo-Marino, Pettersson-Cernak which is at least decent.
Nov 21, 2020 at 11:40
#4
Thread Starter
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
Quoting: Yojimbo
Cash isnt allowable in trades anymore.


yeah IK ...
I just mean there would have to be some "deal" or something for TOR to pay some of MM's onerous salary...even if not officially retained...
Nov 21, 2020 at 11:41
#5
Thread Starter
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite


Value wise the trade is probably fair but like you said it hurts PIT’s D too much. IDK if Marino is ready for a top pair role, Holl is a decent 4th defender but playing alongside Matheson his play would suffer.

Perhaps do Marner + 1st for Letang + Rust, dump Matheson, keep Pettersson & offersheet Cernak for like 3.5 million. Your defence would be Dumo-Marino, Pettersson-Cernak which is at least decent.


I get matheson could be a dumpster fire...and that's why I wanna wait and see first how he plays...I was assuming he'll rebound for this post.
mhockey91 liked this.
Nov 21, 2020 at 1:26
#6
Thank You GMJR
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,052
Likes: 6,397
Not nearly enough for MP

leafs pass on that trade too. The age difference between letang and marner is just too significant. However, If they were close in age, then pens would undoubtedly pass
Pens3lieve and DartGuy86 liked this.
Nov 21, 2020 at 1:27
#7
Thank You GMJR
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,052
Likes: 6,397
Quoting: Pens3lieve
I get matheson could be a dumpster fire...and that's why I wanna wait and see first how he plays...I was assuming he'll rebound for this post.


Yeah if he has a solid season, I could see Seattle taking him. Let’s hope for that
Pens3lieve liked this.
Nov 21, 2020 at 2:06
#8
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 707
The D looks weak because you traded MP.
Bury or trade Ceci, trade Sceviour.

MP-Marino
Dumoulin-Riikola
Matheson-Holl

I just don’t see them breaking up MP-Marino as they were probably our best and most consistent pair last year.
It obviously is going to be weaker minus letang. The question is, does Marners offensive ability make up the difference?
Nov 21, 2020 at 2:49
#9
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,121
Likes: 880
Would be a fun team to watch
Nov 21, 2020 at 4:15
#10
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 454
Edited Nov 21, 2020 at 4:26
I would agree it would significantly hurt our D. And probably our PP taking away our point. I just think Marner is the best player in that deal, and when u can get the best player in the trade, you most often take it.

Rust value will probably never be higher than it is now. We will see after this year though. If he does it again, I’m majorly wrong!!

And P-O Joseph is a 2-Way defensemen. Plays on the PK as well. Very good in his own end. Comparing him and Matheson is horrible IMO.

I think a D pairings of Dumoulin/Marino, Petterrson/Holl, Matheson/Ruthwedel and Ceci platoon is significantly worse. But doable. And I don’t see why we couldn’t add another RHD in trading Pettersson or P-O Joseph.

I think a 1st line of Guentzel/Crosby/Marner would be great. Put Kappy on Geno’s right wing. And everything else stays the same for now.

I am just usually a believer in getting the best player in the trade usually wins. Unless major futures or 1st round picks are involved, then it’s a crap shoot with the draft. But the team who gets the best player in the trade usually wins. Letang is a better player than Marmer, overall, career wise. But Marner is only 24, a recent top 5 pick, already had a 94 point season the year b4 Covid. So right now, I’ll take Marner and 82 games a year at 24 over Letang at 33 and 55-65 games a year.
Nov 21, 2020 at 6:01
#11
Thread Starter
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
Quoting: Pensfan89
The D looks weak because you traded MP.
Bury or trade Ceci, trade Sceviour.

MP-Marino
Dumoulin-Riikola
Matheson-Holl

I just don’t see them breaking up MP-Marino as they were probably our best and most consistent pair last year.
It obviously is going to be weaker minus letang. The question is, does Marners offensive ability make up the difference?


even with MP it's still potentially very weak. it's not so much more offense makes up for less defense bc just look at TOR. firepower up front but not much on the back end the last few years.
Nov 21, 2020 at 6:04
#12
Thread Starter
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
Quoting: PGHBOB69
I would agree it would significantly hurt our D. And probably our PP taking away our point. I just think Marner is the best player in that deal, and when u can get the best player in the trade, you most often take it.

Rust value will probably never be higher than it is now. We will see after this year though. If he does it again, I’m majorly wrong!!

And P-O Joseph is a 2-Way defensemen. Plays on the PK as well. Very good in his own end. Comparing him and Matheson is horrible IMO.

I think a D pairings of Dumoulin/Marino, Petterrson/Holl, Matheson/Ruthwedel and Ceci platoon is significantly worse. But doable. And I don’t see why we couldn’t add another RHD in trading Pettersson or P-O Joseph.

I think a 1st line of Guentzel/Crosby/Marner would be great. Put Kappy on Geno’s right wing. And everything else stays the same for now.

I am just usually a believer in getting the best player in the trade usually wins. Unless major futures or 1st round picks are involved, then it’s a crap shoot with the draft. But the team who gets the best player in the trade usually wins. Letang is a better player than Marmer, overall, career wise. But Marner is only 24, a recent top 5 pick, already had a 94 point season the year b4 Covid. So right now, I’ll take Marner and 82 games a year at 24 over Letang at 33 and 55-65 games a year.


sorry my bad on POJ slipped my mind that I recently heard he was good defensively.... I wasn't comparing him to matheson really just my thinking was they were both more offensive guys...
yeah I don't think either side would do this honestly...
Nov 21, 2020 at 6:17
#13
backcheck>paycheck
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 231
Likes: 134
The leafs don’t make this trade anyway.
mhockey91 liked this.
Nov 21, 2020 at 9:38
#14
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 707
Quoting: Pens3lieve
even with MP it's still potentially very weak. it's not so much more offense makes up for less defense bc just look at TOR. firepower up front but not much on the back end the last few years.


Yeah but their defense has been even more trash than this defense lol
Pens3lieve liked this.
Nov 21, 2020 at 9:40
#15
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 707
Quoting: Pens3lieve
even with MP it's still potentially very weak. it's not so much more offense makes up for less defense bc just look at TOR. firepower up front but not much on the back end the last few years.

And tbh, the pens kind of handicap themselves by taking Holl back. If they don’t have Holl in the deal, then trade Sceviour and bury Ceci, they potentially have enough cap to sign Vatanen to sure up the defense.
Nov 22, 2020 at 3:36
#16
Thread Starter
Hockey IQ
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 932
Quoting: Pensfan89
Yeah but their defense has been even more trash than this defense lol


yeah for sure lol
 
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