depends on where that first is. That Detroit 2nd is probably 35-40 and Stevie Y is good at finding gems so I wouldn't give that up. If the pick is top 3, then maybe I do it if I'm Detroit. Otherwise probably no

Buffalo says no, Johnson is going to be a very good defenseman, also we are not giving up a possible number 1 pick

Dude... that’s not even close
No chance Buffalo give up a top3 pick for that

We might trade back if u wanna swap 1sts & give us Mantha & take Okposo, but otherwise i think we stay put & then just buy Okposo out

Very lopsided for Detroit imo

The Sabres easily pass, they have no reason to add Johnson and McIssac is nothing

Both teams say no

Mantha, ~35 OVR, ~51 OVR for Okposo + ~3 OVR (McIssac and Johnson are a wash). A buyout of Okposo is 6M cash & 10M cap space. Mo is having a down year as is the whole Detroit roster. Top 5 picks haven’t been moved in the cap era (if known top 5). This isn’t a great year to suck, the top forward prospect (Beniers) projects as a 2C.


What an odd thing to say, McIsaac is nothing. By that logic Johnson is nothing.

There is no way I'd trade McIssac for Johnson.

Sabres dont need D prospects, thats why they move the number 1 pick, it also doesnt make sense to trade 2 first round dmen for a 2nd round dman and 2 2nd rounders, even with Mantha added

Sabres decline. Johnson good prospect. our 1st - #1-3. Okposo our top scorer since Eichel's injury.

The original trade is bad, but this is a ridiculous overcorrection. I really hope you're being hyperbolic, just to make a point.

If u wanna move up to #1 then it’s gonna cost something good

Alright alright, here's how I came up with this idea...

McIsaac + EDM 2nd = Johnson

Okposo + (mid round 1st) = FC's

Mantha value = (mid round 1st) + 2nd + 3rd... similar to Tomas Tatar to VGK trade

Therefore, I'm valuing that 2021 1st as: 2 mid 1sts + 2 2nds + 3rd (see below)
DET 2nd (~35oa) + 2x mid round 1sts (see Okposo + Mantha above) + 2nd (Mantha) + 3rd (Mantha)

Am I really that far off?

Issue is adding KO to decrease value. Buf sucks, like historically bad. Why would they move KO off a team that will still be bad next year at a handsome price to pay? If you are just looking at value, ok, still think your a little short, but not crazily but in actual practice it makes less then zero sense

I think part of it is that BUF is historically bad due to coaching, which in turn killed morale. Maybe this year is dead, but on paper, I don't think they're that bad. However, Mantha is an infinite upgrade over KO and will really help to balance your lines and drive the line that Eichel (when he returns) isn't on, but then join Eichel on the PP.

I think the valuation here is pretty fair. Mantha joins BUF with Okposo's cap coming off the books and DET sends picks over to even it all out.

Will it happen? Of course not, but that's what ACGM is all about.

There’s no guarantee that’s it’s 1OVR and it’s actually more likely to be 3rd OVR. I don’t put too much stock into draft position post draft considering you’re labeling Johnson’s first rounder (31 OVR) and McIsaac (36 OVR) a second rounder. So going from 31 OVR to 36 OVR you become nothing, none the less in a different draft. If you want to say it doesn’t make sense to swap the defensemen than say that. Draft position vs development are different, there are multiple selections after Johnson I’d take as they’ve increased their value via development. If you think adding Okposo to the trade to diminish the return of your first rounder than say that and I get it. The only reason I have with your comment is that it reads like McIsaac is a trash prospect and Johnson is some blue chip prospect or something.


Top picks don’t get moved. There isn’t an example in the cap era NHL of a top 5 pick being moved (knowing it’s top 5) nor is this the draft to spend significant assets to do so as the top end are extremely comparable. This draft is a lot like 2017. As multiple professional scouts have said this is a bad year to suck.

I’m not just talking about value and ACGM. I’m saying people are saying no as it’s just not smart value for a team that is still this bad even with the additional Mantha and Eichel back to fix. Mantha is a fine player, but 1) he’s had 2 pretty good seasons and the rest mediocre or desiring more and 2) has had a tough time staying healthy. Honestly, there are easier ways to get KO off the team then unloading a prime asset in their first. This draft may not be taughted as the best, but that doesn’t mean that guys can’t be good players, much like Mantha is now.

May be a bad year to suck as there’s no sure fire 1, but could always find a real star at 3 if that’s where they land. Buf is so far off that unloading KO doesn’t matter as much as moving a bad contract for another team tbh

All of the Detroit trades I’ve seen over value Mantha...just another example.

Sabres can just buy out Okposo
The value here is terrible

Top picks don’t get moved bc the cost for them is so high
MUCH higher than the guy who proposed this thinks it will cost
It’s just not even close

Yes
It’s gonna cost A LOT to get a Top3 pick- even in a weaker draft
Sabres can just buy out out Okposo & draft a really talented player instead of making a bad trade

We’re also not trading a better prospect (Johnson) for a worse one- just so we can have a late 2nd

Your logic is taking the value of lesser parts & just adding them together to supposedly equal the significantly better pieces that you’d rather have- and that’s just not of interest to us

Reverse it
U think Mantha’s value is a 1st, 2nd & 3rd
Ok.... we’ll give u the 3rd & the 2nd, but their value is higher than typical bc they’re at the top of the round
So that extra value plus another 2nd should equal that 1st you’d want, right?
So ok... Mantha for two 2nds & a 3rd then- deal?
OF COURSE NOT
Bc that’s a dumb way to evaluate a trade

The problem here is you think BUF is still a top 3 pick after exchanging Okposo for Mantha. Mantha leaving DET will make that DET 2nd go down a few spots, while Mantha joining BUF will help pull them up the standings. Not only because of the player, but because of the morale boost that BUF MGMT is trying to do something by bringing in a good player.

So now, let's assume that BUF 1st is outside the top 4, maybe 5-7 overall (don't forget SEA has 3rd best odds). This means you're moving Okposo, ~6 overall, Johnson for Mantha, McIsaac, 32-34 overall, and a low 40s pick.

Is it really that far off? I don't think so.

We are so far behind in the standings that even adding Larkin wouldn’t pull us up

And you keep ignoring that we can just buy out Okposo

We’ll keep our top3 pick, thanks
Absolutely ZERO INTEREST

I just want to propose a question here with a difference scenario.

With Okposo off of the books it opens up a lot of cash for contracts.
From what I have been reading this is a below average draft most likely to have about as much talent as the 2017 draft Hischier and Patrick going 1 - 2 (I know Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson were the next 3).
If the Sabres could:
Trade Hall to STL for Dunn,
Insert Mantha into the line up,
Most of all get a good coach.
The top nine could be:
Skinner Eichel Mantha
Olofsson Cozens Reinhart (could flop the wingers)
Mittelstadt Ruotsalainen Quinn.
And the defense could be:
Dahlin Ristolainen
Dunn Miller
Bryson Borgen

Would you rather have Mantha or either Hischier or Patrick.
With all of the misses the Sabres have had in the last 6 drafts, and most of the scouts fired I wonder if it is a good idea to take a player only 2 years older than Eichel, then try to guess who to draft and wait two years for that player to break into the line up.
I look forward to your sagacious comments.

I would prefer to build from the draft, especially since Mantha will not make us a playoff team. I also think this is a good draft to the top 7-10, there are 2-3 players who look very promising.