Like I said, if you would switch them on draft day I’m not sure it’d look like how it does today. As of right now Makar is clearly the best dman in the league, but his development was incredibly well put by the likes of Sakic and Bednar.

Started playing him a year close to two after he was drafted (at 20 years old), played glued to the Mackinnon line and was played with good d partners. They couldn’t of done a better job developing him.

Meanwhile Heiskanen was glued to Comeau, Faksa and Cogliano (3 ECHL’ers) from 19 to last year (last year he pretty much only played with bums), and his d partner has never been good except this year where Lindell is decent.

Put Makar with those bums and Heiskanen with those titans at 18-20 years old and it very well could’ve been different. If you would switch them of scenarios now it wouldn’t matter since they’re developed (Makar>Heiskanen), but when they’re brand new in the big leagues it could very well of been different.

Only thing Heiskanen is better at than Makar currently is in the playoffs.

Since some of you are debating on top players of all time, I’ll give you my somewhat controversial opinion.

Richard>Howe

K, but you could say that for a ton of players (swap Oliver Wahlstrom and, say, Michael Bunting, and who knows how things turn out?), for sure a lot depends on development.

For a second I thought you were saying Heiskanen was ACTUALLY better than Makar...

I’m higher on Richard than most, I think he’s easily top 5 all time.

For those wondering, the top 5 (in no particular order after Gretzky, but all still easily top 5 players) is Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Richard and Lemieux.

But I think I’d take Howe. The sheer length of his career is incredible. He scored more. It’s close but I’d take Howe.

Mine would be very similar to yours, as listed: Gretzky, Lemieux, Richard, Howe and then either Orr or Lidstrom

Have to imagine that’s Maurice Richard though Henry Richard was pretty good too ( 11 Cups )

Avs lead the Kings 4-0 with 5 minutes left...in the first period.

I mean he’s not top 10 in points all time, or even close to it. I doubt he’s top 10 in Art Ross or Hart trophies. Is t top 20 in cup, etc…

I think he is top 10, to be clear. Not top 5, if probably rank him 6-7 all time. I’m just saying there’s a legit argument that he isn’t top 10.

Devils vs Avalanche tomorrow

Should be fun....

Where he ranks all time in the points ranking is obviously dependent on the fact that he just passed 1100 games. Guys like Ron Francis played over 1700. I never have seen anyone claim Francis is a top 20 all timer much less top 10 despite his clear standing on the all time pts list.

For me the top 10 is:

1 Gretzky
2 Lemieux
3 Orr
4 Howe
5 Sid
6 Rocket
7 Beliveau
8 Lidstrom
9 Roy
10 Harvey
11 Hasek
12 Yzerman
13 Morenz
14 Ovi
15 Jagr
16 Brodeur
17 Messier (IMO probably the most overrated great player)
18 Coffey
19 Sakic
20 Dionne

Dionne at 20 is WAY too low. He gets underrated by a TON of people-he's 6th all time in points AND in points per game (look at the two lists-the only other player in the top 10 of both is Gretzky). He deserves to be top 10.

I've got MacKinnon, Toews & Kuemper in fantasy (& it's semifinals this week), so the more Gillies/Daws/Hammond give up, the better. (But then again, the Devils somehow won the first matchup, plus it's Francouz in net tomorrow for the Avs, not Kuemper)

I reworked it because I forgot Bobby Hull who is probably in the 9-12 range. Marcel Dionne rocks and I’ve met the guy at his restaurant/hockey store in Niagara Falls (seriously check it out it’s amazing). I have to say though as good as he was those stats are inflated from that era.

Where he ranks all time in the points ranking is obviously dependent on the fact that he just passed 1100 games. Guys like Ron Francis played over 1700. I never have seen anyone claim Francis is a top 20 all timer much less top 10 despite his clear standing on the all time pts list.

For me the top 10 is:

1 Gretzky
2 Lemieux
3 Orr
4 Howe
5 Sid
6 Rocket
7 Beliveau
8 Lidstrom
9 Roy
10 Hull
11 Hasek
12 Harvey
13 Morenz
14 Yzerman
15 Ovi
16 Jagr
17 Messier (IMO probably the most overrated great player)
18 Brodeur
19 Sakicw
20 Dionne

I’m higher on Richard than most, I think he’s easily top 5 all time.

For those wondering, the top 5 (in no particular order after Gretzky, but all still easily top 5 players) is Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Richard and Lemieux.

But I think I’d take Howe. The sheer length of his career is incredible. He scored more. It’s close but I’d take Howe.

I agree, I was just playing devils advocate.

I think he 6th behind the other 5 I mentioned. Maybe 7th or 8th (Beliveau and Lindstrom might be ahead).

Avs lead the Kings 4-0 with 5 minutes left...in the first period.

Bruh 9-2

I've got MacKinnon, Toews & Kuemper in fantasy (& it's semifinals this week))

Bruh 9-2

Lmao just saw twitter posts of Evander Kane's ex-wife paying $200 for Ryan Hartman for that fine he got for flipping off the bird for him

The sh*t-housery is real.

It’s funny…

In a really sad pathetic kind of way.