Where’s my beer and popcorn for this one?

How dare you offer Woo for Nylander! Disrespectful

The purpose of trading Nylander would to get big cap space....not just 1.4m
Woo hasn't shown he is NHL capable. Neither has Niemela, but gotta believe Niemela has hope to do so, Woo, probably not.

VAN can retain for a pick. But is that the most you're gonna yell at me? Bless you!

Why would I yell? It was honest proposal which is important in my books. Now we discuss/argue value for both teams, but I appreciate honest, logical thoughts from my CF buds.

Then yea, I'd say a 3rd rounder for 1.6m retained would be fair or a 2nd rounder for the full 50% retention

Leafs easily accept

Nylander and third for a 4m Miller. Yea I think the Leafs do that.

This is a short sighted trade. Miller is not going to get better. He's going to need his biggest contract of his career at the age of 30 and will be declining the entire time. So despite getting a short cap benefit next season, it's gone the year after or the Leafs just traded away a point a game player and a top prospect for 1 year of Miller and then have nothing to show for it. This is a dumb trade for TO.

I don't see any logic for TO to do this though. What happens after next season? Miller is going to want to get paid for his big years in Vancouver and whatever he does next season which will instantly become a bad contract. Would TO sign him? Or let him walk, which would mean we gave away a point a game player for nothing and now have a major hole in the lineup. This desire to get millions in cap space to buy over priced depth is mind boggling

Gonna say no for what Niemala has the potential to become

Not worth a year of Miller.

Miller doesn't have that kind of value anymore. He was a player with term, now he's just a rental. His value has dropped significantly. Vancouver would have trouble getting Nylander alone for Miller just because of term issues.

I asked for you to yell at me, not speak inaccuracies to me. Miller>Nylander, that fact isn't up for debate tbh. Its how much extra TOR has to add to make the value fair.

Miller is better than Nylander but that's not what makes the difference is here. The question is what's more valuable, 1 year of Miller or 2 of Nylander? Miller scores more but that's mostly because he plays 2 more minutes per game. When you equalize the ice time, Miller scores 0.3 more points per 60 minutes. Not a big difference so we come back to what's more valuable? The player who will score 90 points for your team for 1 season or the player who will score a point per game for 2? Making a case for the 2 years term isn't hard to do and I think you'd find Vancouver adding for that extra year of term on Nylander.

I mean over the last 3 seasons (almost 200-game sample size) Miller is outscoring Nylander by a substantial margin. Miller plays all 3 forward positions, drives his line offensively, QBs the PP and is a top line PKer. I am admittedly ignorant on how Nylander plays while on the ice but he is a winger (hasnt played centre for at least 2 years), has fewer PP points in a similar amount of time, barely Pks and Miller also offers TOR cap flexibility. Feels pretty obvious that TOR has to add

Again, you ignore that most of that is a product of time on ice. Miller has played 600+ minutes more than Nylander over the past 3 seasons so lets have a look at how that works when you even out the ice time.



What we see is that Nylander actually scores at a greater rate than Miller(see most valuable) and puts up primary assists at the same rate. The place Miller is putting up those extra points is as secondary (see least valuable) assists. Probably comes from the fact he's playing on top lines rather than 2nd lines like Nylander. So we come back to the question of what's more valuable? 1 year of the former or 2 years of the latter? The answer is the 2 years. Vancouver would definitely need to add after looking at where those points are coming from.

Isnt the higher ice time a point in Miller's favour? Those extra minutes are coming from Pk, which is value that Nylander doesn't bring to team he plays for. Miller having to play top competition makes the points he earns harder to get right? Idk man, feels at this point like we are too biased for this discussion. It couldn't be clearer to me that if you are trying to win a Stanley cup (TOR), you'd want Miller over Nylander. If you're a team that's cap strapped and trying to win a Stanley cup (TOR), then the guy who gets paid less is better so you can use the cap savings elsewhere.

Miller spends as much extra time PKing as he has spent extra time on the PP and frankly, Vancouver has been among the worst PKing teams in the league with him up there. He's not exactly a force there. The only place Miller would be more valuable is a team going all in on one season. Toronto has no need to do that. They also have no need for centers or PKers. Basically everything you can bring up in Miller's favor isn't a big factor to the Leafs.

Miller is better, no doubt about that, but their trade value is probably about equal I would think due to the fact that Nylander has an extra year on his contract.

Huh? Miller has played played 192 more minutes than Nylander this year and of that 131 of them have come from the PK, 40 more come from ES so we are talking 21/22 more PP minutes than Nylander... So idk how you can say that. He has played 6x more time on PK than he has on PP vs Nylander. Just because VANs Pk is garbage doesnt mean that JT is garbage Pker. Re: position, I'm not saying necessarily that TOR needs another centre, but Miller brings that value and flexibility to TOR that Nylander doesnt. Again, if you are trying to win a cup then you want Miller, not Nylander.

Does anyone want Woo?

Debatable haha. If this were NHL 22 then I would say he is a Low Top 4/Med Top 6, has to improve his skating but has the tools and grit to make it.

You are switching back and forth between the past 3 years and this year. And again, if you are trying to win the Cup in 1 year then you want Miller, if you want to win a Cup you are better off with 2 years of Nylander. That's why term matters. In general, you win a cup by being a good team for longer rather than being a great time for 1 season.

"Back and forth" this was the first time I referenced this season (simply because I was lazy and it was easiest to get). 1 extra year at a high cap hit isn't the benefit you think it is. Again, I think we are too biased for this discussion man. Everyone else in the thread agrees that Miller>Nylander and from my standpoint that means TOR would have to add if they are gaining more value.

You clearly haven't read the replies to this thread. Only 1 person has been in favor of this and MrDinklee is just a troll. 'Everyone' seems to agree that term is more valuable than the difference between Miller and Nylander.