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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary

Jul. 28, 2022 at 5:55 p.m.
#1176
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I have absolutely zero faith in Mrazek, so even though I'm really not a fan of Murray either, if it had to go one way or the other, I'd prefer it the way it went.


This doesn't fill you with confidence?

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Jul. 28, 2022 at 5:56 p.m.
#1177
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Quoting: mondo
i think a lot of those decisions can be rationalized:

-Kadri for Barrie/Kerfoot made a ton of sense at the time; especially since Kadri was coming off another playoff suspension and they needed a RHD. Kadri's explosion this season and Barrie being dogwater were entirely unexpected.
-Keeping Holl made sense over keeping McCann. Again, need for RHD. Same reason why he hasn't been sent to Arizona yet.
-If it wasn't Toronto spending that 1st it would've been someone else. Personally wish it was someone else. Also didn't help that Folingo played like 10 games. 100% would agree this was a blunder.
-Also a blunder if Malgin comes back and does **** all.
-Not the biggest fan of gambling everyone on Murray rebounding, but Murray's month-by-month splits last season look better than Campbell's outside of November. 4.8 x 2 for Murray over 5 x 5 for Campbell is a better option, but honestly at what point do you just send a bunch of stuff to Anaheim/Winnipeg and get Gibson/Hellebuyck? I feel like locking down the goaltending position instead of rolling the dice on it a better move, and I wouldn't be shocked if this costs him his job.


Pretty much.

Like I feel the Murray trade is actually pretty smart in a financial sense as for one if Murray sucks you can add a 2nd and dump him as 1 year vs 4 years is easier to move. And by the time hes up there are 2 really good goalies available in Hellebuyck and Sorokin should he not get back to form. Then you got Sammy coming in and going I want to fight for the starting job and man I respect that. Could have got 3.5mill in Buffalo but went nah I see an opportunity and im taking it.

Malgin to me is meh who cares. Marchment aint with Florida so who cares what happens now.

McCann over Holl or vice versa meant jack **** in the flat cap world as both guys would need to be traded

And the Kadri trade was Dubas bending to the media and getting rid of what they called "the cancer" when in fact it was more to do with the system which honestly today would love Kadri and Keefe would probs love a guy like that but we were stuck with Babcock.

In the end only gripe is the Foligno trade. Every other trade I see why he did it and honestly if its to get a guy more play time why not. Sure its not for your team but doing so allows for you to leave a good impression with the agent for any future signings/deals
Jul. 28, 2022 at 5:57 p.m.
#1178
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
This doesn't fill you with confidence?



This got him waived and then after getting waived he came back and **** slapped Florida and got a standing ovation.

In general if he never had his third groin injury I got a feeling we were in for a surprise as Mrazek was finally putting up good numbers but then in Boston he got cursed and left with a LBI



Jul. 28, 2022 at 5:59 p.m.
#1179
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Quoting: aadoyle
This got him waived and then after getting waived he came back and **** slapped Florida and got a standing ovation.


Yep. Looked like he might actually form a good tandem with Campbell for a split second-then he got hurt again, and that was the end of his time in Toronto.
Jul. 28, 2022 at 6:00 p.m.
#1180
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
This doesn't fill you with confidence?



Fills me with something, but confidence ain't it.
Jul. 28, 2022 at 6:00 p.m.
#1181
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Quoting: Db1899
I don’t think Dubas sucks, he’s just extremely overrated. He’s an average GM at best. Great at drafting, but he’s made a ton of questionable moves over the last 4 seasons that old hockey men would get killed for.

Trading Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot
Choosing to expose Jared Mccann
Trading a 1st for Nick Foligno
Trading Marchment for Malgin
Move down in the draft to get rid of Mrazek and then giving up assets for Matt Murray

I don’t think the Kadri trade can be judged too harshly. Trading a 2C that you’ve been playing on your 3rd line for a 1RD and a solid middle-six 2-way C/LW is a good trade, nobody expected Barrie to instantly go from 60pt top pair guy to 3rd pair PP specialist. Also on just the trade alone, 25+Mrazek for 38 is a good deal. I don’t like that he used the cap space on Murray (top 3 Dubas L for sure) and I’m not a fan of Minten, but that trade evaluated in isolation is a W. Also Marchment for Malgin was a nothing swap of 16th forwards, can hardly blame Dubas there, sometimes guys just bloom late elsewhere (like Verhaeghe too, he bounced around several systems).

I definitely agree that keeping Holl over McCann is indefensible and I won’t hear anything about “Holl was more valuable at the time” because he wasn’t, he was clearly overrated and carried by Muzzin whereas McCann was very good and primed for a breakout, which happened even on a bad Kraken team, and I’ve been saying all that since before it happened. 1st for Foligno rounds out top 3 bad moves.

And I would call his drafting average at best. Using half your picks on guys that will inevitably fight for exactly one roster spot (the top 6 small skill player role) is not a good strategy. He does have some good moves (Campbell trade, Bunting signing, etc.) so overall I agree he’s just an average GM. Underrated by people that want more grit, overrated by people that like 5’9” wingers that tear up the junior ranks.
Jul. 28, 2022 at 6:01 p.m.
#1182
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Yep. Looked like he might actually form a good tandem with Campbell for a split second-then he got hurt again, and that was the end of his time in Toronto.


Yep this was the game where I was like k hes gonna turn it around and show us all what hes got and then sadly the groin gave out

But a 0.944sv against Florida aint bad





Game was a week after he got waived
Jul. 28, 2022 at 6:14 p.m.
#1183
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I mean at this point can't SJ file a grievance against the league.. its kinda comical.
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 6:23 p.m.
#1184
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
What makes Kekalainen bad? He’s been amazing for the most part ( Savard, Foligno, Jones return, setting the team up after going all in, getting Gaudreau ). Only bad moves from his are that Gud contract and Bjorkstrand deal


just an overall lack of direction and results. he's on of the longest serving gm's. he's been in office for 10 seasons now so he's had time to bring in his guys and build the team in his vision and i dont think the team is very good. i'd expect them to be farther along

Quoting: Db1899
I don’t think Dubas sucks, he’s just extremely overrated. He’s an average GM at best. Great at drafting, but he’s made a ton of questionable moves over the last 4 seasons that old hockey men would get killed for.

Trading Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot
Choosing to expose Jared Mccann
Trading a 1st for Nick Foligno
Trading Marchment for Malgin
Move down in the draft to get rid of Mrazek and then giving up assets for Matt Murray


i can't knock dubas' drafting overall it's probably the strongest skill he has. i don't think he's a very good negotiator which led to players getting more than they should and teams getting the better of him in trades.

he's ignored obvious flaws in his team. the leafs bottom 6 and especially goaltending has been bad for years. he never should have signed mrazek but he should have known by late winter this year that the leafs goaltending wasn't going to get it done this year. some questionable player selection too. despite the leafs being in the prime of the cup contention window he doesn't go for it like sakic, brisebois, zito. he's wasting the leafs prime years imo.
Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:02 p.m.
#1185
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:08 p.m.
#1186
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Quoting: MatthewsFan




a bit more money and term then i was expecting but if it works out that could be a very good deal.
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:11 p.m.
#1187
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
a bit more money and term then i was expecting but if it works out that could be a very good deal.


I like his upside plus if you at Paul getting 7 years at 3 and Joseph 4 at just under 3, I’ll take that
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:17 p.m.
#1188
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Quoting: MatthewsFan



This is a very interesting deal. I thought he’d get 2x2 to see what he really is, and Formenton would be the guy who would get a medium term deal like this. He’s still relatively unproven, but his floor is as a very fast, effective PKer in the bottom 6. This is a lot of money for that floor, so the hope is he has some offensive upside. He had 12 goals in 56 games with Tampa in 20-21, and 12 points in 11 games with us to end the year. I don’t expent him to be a point per game player, but if he can be a 15-20 goal, 35-40 point guy on the 3rd line, this will be fair value. If he can continue to mesh as the complementary piece with Tkachuk and Norris on a top 6 line and put up 50+ points while being the energy guy that injects some speed (Tkachuk isn’t exactly fast) while also helping Norris with the matchup game, and thus allow Batherson or Giroux to play down on the 3rd line with Formenton and Pinto, this contract will be a huge W.

Ultimately I think it’s a very promising sign that a guy wants to stay here for several years, and the last time we let a speedy middle six winger walk who wanted a similar deal it didn’t turn out great. Although I think we offered Duke 3x3 a year before the Cats gave him that? So idk what really happened there, maybe he just wanted to test the market and overplayed his hand but didn’t want to skulk back to Ottawa, but regardless he’s gone now, but Joseph is here to stay, which is nice to be able to say about players now.
Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:23 p.m.
#1189
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Quoting: MatthewsFan




Terrific signing, hope he succeeds (as long as he doesn't succeed as much as Nick Paul smile)
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:28 p.m.
#1190
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Quoting: Alfie11
This is a very interesting deal. I thought he’d get 2x2 to see what he really is, and Formenton would be the guy who would get a medium term deal like this. He’s still relatively unproven, but his floor is as a very fast, effective PKer in the bottom 6. This is a lot of money for that floor, so the hope is he has some offensive upside. He had 12 goals in 56 games with Tampa in 20-21, and 12 points in 11 games with us to end the year. I don’t expent him to be a point per game player, but if he can be a 15-20 goal, 35-40 point guy on the 3rd line, this will be fair value. If he can continue to mesh as the complementary piece with Tkachuk and Norris on a top 6 line and put up 50+ points while being the energy guy that injects some speed (Tkachuk isn’t exactly fast) while also helping Norris with the matchup game, and thus allow Batherson or Giroux to play down on the 3rd line with Formenton and Pinto, this contract will be a huge W.

Ultimately I think it’s a very promising sign that a guy wants to stay here for several years, and the last time we let a speedy middle six winger walk who wanted a similar deal it didn’t turn out great. Although I think we offered Duke 3x3 a year before the Cats gave him that? So idk what really happened there, maybe he just wanted to test the market and overplayed his hand but didn’t want to skulk back to Ottawa, but regardless he’s gone now, but Joseph is here to stay, which is nice to be able to say about players now.


FYyj_uQWYAA_Lfs?format=jpg&name=medium

I like his upside. I see him and Paul being pretty similar with Joesph providing more offensively. It’s a good bet IMO
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:33 p.m.
#1191
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Quoting: MatthewsFan




Just make it 3mill already enough of this .95 stuff always get annoyed with deals like that as im okay with 2.5 and 2.75 but when you go 2.95 im like k the **** just make it 3
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:35 p.m.
#1192
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Quoting: aadoyle
Just make it 3mill already enough of this .95 stuff


Well, this is how the contract actually is structured:
2022-23: $2.5MM
2023-24: $2.7MM
2024-25: $3.3MM
2025-26: $3.3MM

Which comes out to $2.95 million AAV, but it's not $2.95 million a year
Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:36 p.m.
#1193
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
FYyj_uQWYAA_Lfs?format=jpg&name=medium

I like his upside. I see him and Paul being pretty similar with Joesph providing more offensively. It’s a good bet IMO

It’s definitely a good bet. I really like the dual threat that is him and Formenton on the PK. Being able to counter-attack with speed will likely lead to a lot of SHGs. I’m not sure what his offensive upside really is, because he was solid in 20-21 and looked like a potential 20 goal guy, then was mediocre for Tampa last year, then was absurdly good for us. Something back around 20-20-40 is hopefully within reason, and would make this an excellent deal when combined with his defensive play. But as you can see from his carry exits, carry entries, and recoveries, he’s at the very least the type of guy who blows by everyone to exit our zone and enter theirs with speed, or gets there first on dump-ins. That’s always helpful to have, and is very useful when combined with a guy who can wire it like Norris. If he works on his playmaking, he could for sure be a very useful top 6 guy on that line.
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:38 p.m.
#1194
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Well, this is how the contract actually is structured:
2022-23: $2.5MM
2023-24: $2.7MM
2024-25: $3.3MM
2025-26: $3.3MM

Which comes out to $2.95 million AAV, but it's not $2.95 million a year


Just structure it to where its 3mill for my sanity lul

Enough of this 2.95mill bull****
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:41 p.m.
#1195
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Quoting: aadoyle
Just structure it to where its 3mill for my sanity lul

Saving 50k on every contract means you get to add a spare guy to the lineup. Makes sense to save money wherever you can. Also it allows you to say he’s making less than a guy being paid 3mil, which is very helpful for dunking on people if they’re a worse player than Joseph smile
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:54 p.m.
#1196
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How many crystals I gotta burn to manifest the moon to make this sh*t happen
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:54 p.m.
#1197
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Quoting: Alfie11



How many crystals I gotta burn to manifest the moon to make this sh*t happen


I hear Gaudette is a man of many crystals
Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:56 p.m.
#1198
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Had a nightmare last night that the Leafs traded Sandin and a 3rd for Subban's negotiating rights and signed him to a 1x1. It was awful.
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Jul. 28, 2022 at 7:58 p.m.
#1199
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Had a nightmare last night that the Leafs traded Sandin and a 3rd for Subban's negotiating rights and signed him to a 1x1. It was awful.


Now don’t be giving Dubas any ideas…
Jul. 28, 2022 at 8:09 p.m.
#1200
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Quoting: Juiceman
Now don’t be giving Dubas any ideas…


this is a benning level move
 
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