Forums/Armchair-GM

Apparently Goaltending Shouldnt Be An Issue When It Comes To Winning Another Cup

Created by: cody_tugak
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 18, 2022
Published: Sep. 18, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Colorado Avalanche
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Well That's What The Media Says Anyways... LOL... That's Super Hilarious Because Even In A Regular Season Game... Goaltending Is A Huge Part Of A Team
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23$82,500,000$81,502,500$25,000$3,562,500$997,500
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O'Connor, Logan
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Toews, Devon
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Georgiev, Alexandar
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Byram, Bowen
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Johnson, Erik
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Sep. 18 at 10:47 a.m.
#1
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Colorado isn't winning the cup again with that tandem. Even if we wrote off Georgiev's last season to an aberration, he's four seasons removed from league-average goaltending. AVS should have kept Kuemper.
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Sep. 18 at 10:52 a.m.
#2
John 3 16
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Goaltending shouldn't what?!
Sep. 18 at 10:53 a.m.
#3
John 3 16
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Colorado isn't winning the cup again with that tandem. Even if we wrote off Georgiev's last season to an aberration, he's four seasons removed from league-average goaltending. AVS should have kept Kuemper.


Yeah, the goalie who barely posted a 0.900 when they won a cup is not the answer... Especially at $5.25m X 5. Pass.
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Sep. 18 at 10:55 a.m.
#4
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Mr.T 17
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Quoting: Richard88
Goaltending shouldn't what?!


Supposed To Say "Apparently Goaltending Shouldn't Be An Issue When It Comes To Winning Another Cup" lol my bad, really thought I added those 3 words in, lol
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Sep. 18 at 10:56 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Colorado isn't winning the cup again with that tandem. Even if we wrote off Georgiev's last season to an aberration, he's four seasons removed from league-average goaltending. AVS should have kept Kuemper.


While I don't think they will win again, you're underestimating what a change of scenery, a true opportunity at a starter job, playing behind a strong puck-moving defense core that drive a high octane offense imo, can do for Georgiev. He will also have something to prove, it make or may not work out, at the end of the day attaching themselves to Kuemper wasn't an option since they wouldn't have enough money. The cap is expected to go up significantly soon, and they will have their chance to upgrade goaltending if this tandem doesn't work at that time.
Sep. 18 at 10:58 a.m.
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Quoting: Richard88
Yeah, the goalie who barely posted a 0.900 when they won a cup is not the answer... Especially at $5.25m X 5. Pass.


Regardless, Georgiev is not the answer. I'm sure Sakic will figure out how to handle it, but if I were an AVS fan I wouldn't be expect a repeat this year.
Sep. 18 at 11:00 a.m.
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Quoting: GMBL
While I don't think they will win again, you're underestimating what a change of scenery, a true opportunity at a starter job, playing behind a strong puck-moving defense core that drive a high octane offense imo, can do for Georgiev. He will also have something to prove, it make or may not work out, at the end of the day attaching themselves to Kuemper wasn't an option since they wouldn't have enough money. The cap is expected to go up significantly soon, and they will have their chance to upgrade goaltending if this tandem doesn't work at that time.


These are all major what-ifs. Also, the Rangers defense is/was one of the better back-ends in the league. It's not like Georgiev played behind swiss cheese.
Sep. 18 at 11:00 a.m.
#8
John 3 16
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Regardless, Georgiev is not the answer. I'm sure Sakic will figure out how to handle it, but if I were an AVS fan I wouldn't be expect a repeat this year.


Maybe we should wait and see before completely writing off a goalie..... The Avs have boosted stats for multiple goalies under Bednar so it's entirely possible that Georgiev can do well enough for the Avs to win.
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Sep. 18 at 11:02 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
These are all major what-ifs. Also, the Rangers defense is/was one of the better back-ends in the league. It's not like Georgiev played behind swiss cheese.


Despite having good individual Dmen Rangers had one of the worst 5v5 xGA rates in the league so Swiss cheese isn't a bad comparison....
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Sep. 18 at 11:02 a.m.
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Quoting: cody_tugak
Supposed To Say "Apparently Goaltending Shouldn't Be An Issue When It Comes To Winning Another Cup" lol my bad, really thought I added those 3 words in, lol


The media just needs something to talk about always. The observation or perhaps the idea that they are trying to push is that perhaps a winning team doesn't need a stud goaltender to win, just a goalie that can play good enough, if they have a high-octane offense+strong defense who can play on both sides. Kuemper might be a top goalie at this time but the tact ia that when he did play his stats weren't good in the playoffs and Francouz also played his fair share of the games.
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Sep. 18 at 11:02 a.m.
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Quoting: Richard88
Maybe we should wait and see before completely writing off a goalie..... The Avs have boosted stats for multiple goalies under Bednar so it's entirely possible that Georgiev can do well enough for the Avs to win.


Look, you're obviously an AVS fan so I expect you to keep the hope and can appreciate that. Just being impartial here. I guess if we all adopt the wait and see mantra, then every team could win the cup next year.

To me, the positive outlook is knowing you have a great GM and he will waste no time figuring out how to fix the problem.
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Sep. 18 at 11:05 a.m.
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Quoting: Richard88
Despite having good individual Dmen Rangers had one of the worst 5v5 xGA rates in the league so Swiss cheese isn't a bad comparison....


The Rangers were terrible 5v5, but you're cherry picking a stat that doesn't reflect the whole defense. It's stats that measures all skaters, so that's a flawed argument. The Rangers were excellent in limiting shots.
Sep. 18 at 11:08 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Look, you're obviously an AVS fan so I expect you to keep the hope and can appreciate that. Just being impartial here. I guess if we all adopt the wait and see mantra, then every team could win the cup next year.

To me, the positive outlook is knowing you have a great GM and he will waste no time figuring out how to fix the problem.






This is the thought on Georgiev. Clearly the Avs management sees something that works for them. They made the move for him 1st out of all the goalie moves this offseason, they targeted him for a reason.
If they believe its a positioning issue, avs have one of the best goalie coaches in the league in Jussi Parkkila.

You saw the results when Grubauer, Kuemper, and even Johan Johansson, as soon as they work with him, their numbers are better. Thats not a coincidence .

Avs fans trust the front office and their coaching staff. Why would we doubt them now. They have time and time again shown when they target someone it works out. Rarely if at all have the avs made a move in the sakic era that has been a disaster
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Sep. 18 at 11:10 a.m.
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Quoting: coga16




This is the thought on Georgiev. Clearly the Avs management sees something that works for them. They made the move for him 1st out of all the goalie moves this offseason, they targeted him for a reason.
If they believe its a positioning issue, avs have one of the best goalie coaches in the league in Jussi Parkkila.

You saw the results when Grubauer, Kuemper, and even Johan Johansson, as soon as they work with him, their numbers are better. Thats not a coincidence .

Avs fans trust the front office and their coaching staff. Why would we doubt them now. They have time and time again shown when they target someone it works out. Rarely if at all have the avs made a move in the sakic era that has been a disaster


I've cited the fact you have great management, but even the best make mistakes. Look, it's totally possible they fix it. It's totally possible TOR fixes Murray. It's totally possible EDM figures out Campbell. It's totally possible Grubauer bounces back. You see where I'm going with this.

As of right now I'm going off of givens and the current given is you're getting a below-average goaltender. A goalie who's put up below average numbers for three straight years. Could that change? Sure, but from the current stand point of a completely non-partial person is that the cards are stacked against you.
Sep. 18 at 11:10 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
These are all major what-ifs. Also, the Rangers defense is/was one of the better back-ends in the league. It's not like Georgiev played behind swiss cheese.


Rangers are good defensively but other than Fox they don't got too many guys who will be keeping the puck in the Ozone which has it's benefits.

The main issue though is that Shesterkin outperformed him and he's probably not going to give up that driver seat any time soon, so the road to a starter role is blocked by his friend. That's going to affect a goalie between the ears, because they will have added pressure to try to prove themselves.

My point was that all those things in combination or just one of them could be enough for him to find his way. I wouldn't say they are what-ifs but you are right there's no guarantee. That being said, I see him and Samsonov getting written-off before they even played a game with their new teams.
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Sep. 18 at 11:13 a.m.
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Quoting: GMBL
Rangers are good defensively but other than Fox they don't got too many guys who will be keeping the puck in the Ozone which has it's benefits.

The main issue though is that Shesterkin outperformed him and he's probably not going to give up that driver seat any time soon, so the road to a starter role is blocked by his friend. That's going to affect a goalie between the ears, because they will have added pressure to try to prove themselves.

My point was that all those things in combination or just one of them could be enough for him to find his way. I wouldn't say they are what-ifs but you are right there's no guarantee but I see him and Samsonov getting written-off before they even played a game with their new teams.


They are absolutely what-ifs. To see that any other way is having your fandom blinders on. We're all guilty of that, so I'm not flaming.

I'm a Pens fan. Do you think I actually like speaking positively about the Rangers? Trust me, I don't, but I know how to be impartial. I watched a lot of Ranger games and Georgiev was terrible last year and has been meh for a few years.

Could that change? Sure. Anything is possible I guess.
Sep. 18 at 11:14 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
I've cited the fact you have great management, but even the best make mistakes. Look, it's totally possible they fix it. It's totally possible TOR fixes Murray. It's totally possible EDM figures out Campbell. It's totally possible Grubauer bounces back. You see where I'm going with this.

As of right now I'm going off of givens and the current given is you're getting a below-average goaltending. Could that change? Sure, but from the current stand point of a completely non-partial person is that the cards are stacked against you.


Its a risk, there is no denying that. But from what has been said after the move as made, stuff like the positioning, there has been mention that when Georgiev has increased work load and consistent starts his numbers are better. There must be enough data and enough eye test scouting for the Avs management to see him as a cup contending starter

I wasn't thrilled about the move, but I can get where they were coming from when they did it. I wouldnt have spent the money on Grubauer or Kuemper as it would hurt the avs depth more, taking away from them identity.

There is really like 3 goalies who you can count on. Other than Vasi, Shersterkin and Saros, every other goalie is basically a coin flip at the best of times.
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Sep. 18 at 11:16 a.m.
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Quoting: coga16
Its a risk, there is no denying that. But from what has been said after the move as made, stuff like the positioning, there has been mention that when Georgiev has increased work load and consistent starts his numbers are better. There must be enough data and enough eye test scouting for the Avs management to see him as a cup contending starter

I wasn't thrilled about the move, but I can get where they were coming from when they did it. I wouldnt have spent the money on Grubauer or Kuemper as it would hurt the avs depth more, taking away from them identity.

There is really like 3 goalies who you can count on. Other than Vasi, Shersterkin and Saros, every other goalie is basically a coin flip at the best of times.


It wasn't a great goalie market, so the pickins were slim. Like I said though, if Georgeiv doesn't work out I'm fully confident that Sakic figures it out. He's one of, if not the best GM in hockey. I'm not saying this end of the Avs or anything lol, but I'm saying this season may wind up being a blip and Sakic figures out how to remedy the issue.
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Sep. 18 at 11:18 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
It wasn't a great goalie market, so the pickins were slim. Like I said though, if Georgeiv doesn't work out I'm fully confident that Sakic figures it out. He's one of, if not the best GM in hockey. I'm not saying this end of the Avs or anything lol, but I'm saying this season may wind up being a blip and Sakic figures out how to remedy the issue.


there is believe in the org that justus annunen can be a starter for them. Like I said goalies are weird, he could just randomly show up out of the AHL mid season and Matt Murray it up for the Avs.
This goalie tandom could be dog poop or they could battle for the Jennings trophy, who the heck knows
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Sep. 18 at 11:18 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Regardless, Georgiev is not the answer. I'm sure Sakic will figure out how to handle it, but if I were an AVS fan I wouldn't be expect a repeat this year.


Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Look, you're obviously an AVS fan so I expect you to keep the hope and can appreciate that. Just being impartial here. I guess if we all adopt the wait and see mantra, then every team could win the cup next year.

To me, the positive outlook is knowing you have a great GM and he will waste no time figuring out how to fix the problem.


The GM/President made his move early and from my perspective brilliantly. Based upon their astuteness right now there is no problem to fix.
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Sep. 18 at 11:22 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
I've cited the fact you have great management, but even the best make mistakes. Look, it's totally possible they fix it. It's totally possible TOR fixes Murray. It's totally possible EDM figures out Campbell. It's totally possible Grubauer bounces back. You see where I'm going with this.

As of right now I'm going off of givens and the current given is you're getting a below-average goaltender. A goalie who's put up below average numbers for three straight years. Could that change? Sure, but from the current stand point of a completely non-partial person is thatthe cards are stacked against you.


That's why it's a good that the total $ amount allocated to goalie by those teams range from minimal-moderate. In addition, Col and Tor will be able to change their goalies sooner rather than later if they don't work out. The result might be "lost years" but unless goaltending causes them to miss the playoffs or directly lose through poor performance, then goaltending can't really be blamed. Besides that it just becomes a case of should have, could of, would of if the other teams goalie just outperforms.
Sep. 18 at 11:27 a.m.
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Quoting: GMBL
That's why it's a good that the total $ amount allocated to goalie by those teams range from minimal-moderate. In addition, Col and Tor will be able to change their goalies sooner rather than later if they don't work out. The result might be "lost years" but unless goaltending causes them to miss the playoffs or directly lose through poor performance, then goaltending can't really be blamed. Besides that it just becomes a case of should have, could of, would of if the other teams goalie just outperforms.


Lost years happen to the best teams. Look at the Pens after they beat DET. The AVS would be a good team for years to come and will benefit from the cap going back up like normal more than most teams.
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Sep. 18 at 11:30 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
They are absolutely what-ifs. To see that any other way is having your fandom blinders on. We're all guilty of that, so I'm not flaming.

I'm a Pens fan. Do you think I actually like speaking positively about the Rangers? Trust me, I don't, but I know how to be impartial. I watched a lot of Ranger games and Georgiev was terrible last year and has been meh for a few years.

Could that change? Sure. Anything is possible I guess.


They aren't what-ifs because I'm not saying if he had x in NY, he would have. I'm saying he has x now in Col, and therefore he could. For example I'm not saying if he had a change a scenery he would or could turn it around. He does have a change of scenery.

I understand what you mean though that all ot that could have 0 result. My point though is that he's being written off before he played even. Also, that if he does turn it around it's not going to be a huge surprise, just as if he doesn't.
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Sep. 18 at 11:39 a.m.
#24
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I mean they just went 16-4 in the playoffs with both goalies posting a negative GSAx
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Sep. 18 at 11:40 a.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Lost years happen to the best teams. Look at the Pens after they beat DET. The AVS would be a good team for years to come and will benefit from the cap going back up like normal more than most teams.


Every team but the Champs will have lost years, which is why I put it in quotes. I don't think it's worth mentioning half the times unless a team is making no progress in terms of team development in the playoffs or in the context of moves that directly result in failure.

It's easy though in hindsight to say Colorado wasted a year or years if Georgiev is just not good enough in comparison to other goalies, and Colorado doesn't win. If Colorado wins again next year Sakic will be called a genius even if his goaltending tandem play poorly. If say they lose in the Finals to TB or NYR because the other goalie was just better, he's going to get criticized by at least some. If they go out 1st round then by more. Luckily for Sakic, though he's now the President and not the GM, so he won't be the one having to fix things if they do go bad.
 
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