With the cap going up, only notable player needing to be signed is Sanderson. They are ok in future years, it’s really this year that the cap hurts mainly with all the dead cap they have. Plus, Chabot seems injury prone because he’s been one manning this D corp since 2019 lol he’ll be fine with reduced minutes

So what are your thoughts on what to do with Pinto and Sokolov? Just give them a qualifying offer and hope they don't sit out a whole year? What are your thoughts on what to do with Joseph? Keep him or trade him, and what would you give up to trade him?

Columbus traded for Provorov because he’s a horse who never misses games and because he has two years left, which lines up with when Mateychuk and Svozil will be ready. Chabot is good, but he’s fragile and signed to much more term.

Sokolov is probably looking at an 800k ish deal, maybe a 2 year with the 2nd being a 1 way. Pinto is probably short term, 2/3 years at around 2-3m. I’d move Joseph and you can package a prospect and pick to a team. Something like Joseph + Sokolov/Thomson/Jarventie (depends on what the other team wants really) + a 3rd or something. Joseph isn’t a terrible player, he’s real good on the PK and he’s still young enough that I’m sure some teams would love to pick up the assets for taking him. Helps both the now and future and worst case, he sucks this year for them too but 2 years (past this year) at 3m isn’t the worst contract to have. Ottawa would just use the money saved from Joseph to give to Pinto and roll a 21 man roster. Top 9 consists of Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, Norris, Tarasenko, Batherson, Pinto, Kubalik and Greig.

Hawks accept!

Finally! A Joseph to Chicago proposal that makes sense for the Hawks.

lol a 1st + 4th to dump Joseph's contract who is :

- 1 M$ overpaid based on last season
- underpaid vs 2021-22
- could easily be just as underpaid or paid accordingly for the next 3 seasons, the prime of his career

Sens are also not interested to trade Chabot. No idea what it would take for them to change their mind but this is not it


https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/750232

I agree to disagree. Joseph is overpaid by at least 2 mil. It's not hard to find a forward that can put up 18 points for 800K that you can send back and forth to the AHL. I'll have a look at your thread to see what value you put on Joseph. It seems by your comment that you believe he has positive value. A 1st and a 4th might be high, I just wanted a trade that Chicago fans would accept without complaint. I would say a 2nd and 3rd is closer to the value, but I could see many fans not accepting that deal, I could be wrong. As for trading Chabot there weren't a lot of contracts that had enough salary to move with no trade clauses, and contracts that weren't recently signed. With Sanderson coming up, Chabot fit that criteria the best.

This is misinformation or lack of information... Saying that Mathieu Joseph is worth 950 000$ in his UFA years is lack of hockey understanding. What's funny is the "AT LEAST" lol...

I just answered someone else in another thread so I am going to lay out the facts for you as well by copy/paste :



The cap will rise a good chunk next season, Joseph's cap will be less of a problem, if at all.

The thing is he wouldn't have been overpaid based on his 2021-22 season, 30 ES/PK pts in 69 games is quite valuable when you're a defensive forward and PK specialist. Yes he had a down year but still paced for 26 pts. It doesn't mean that it will keep going this way the next 3 seasons.

While he never scored more than 30 pts, he also never played 82 games in a season. He only played 5 seasons so far. Played half the season in his sophomore year, then there was the shortened Covid season where he played all 56 games, then he missed some games due to injury the next 2. This is how he has paced in each of his seasons so far (per 82 games) :

2018-19 (21 y/o) : 30 pts pace
2019-20 (22 y/o) : 16 pts pace (only 37 games though)
2020-21 (23 y/o) : 28 pts pace
2021-22 (24 y/o) : 35 pts pace
2022-23 (25 y/o) : 26 pts pace

As you can see, outside of his sophomore season where he only played 37 games, he has paced for 26-35 pts in each season (30 pts on average). You then have to realize that only 5 of his 100 career points were on the PP. Like I said, he's a defensive forward, doesn't get much PP. And he only played on 2 teams that were stacked PP wise.


You're giving me a lot of work here... You're not looking at CF% correctly. OF COURSE, players who PK a lot will have lesser CF%... If you look at ES, he has a career 50.6% (49.2% last season), again, as a defensive forward, often used in defensive missions against offensive players, even at ES


Yes he's not a "physical forward" but at the same time, pretty good on the forecheck. And he doesn't only log minutes on the PK... See the 98% below? It means 98% percentile for best PK metrics among forwards. He has Elite PK metrics in the NHL




It's not, well not when you look at things correctly. He was overpaid last season for sure but it's also 1 season and everyone knows 1 season doesn't define a career. You also have to take into account that he was buried in Tampa's depth earlier in his career.

However it's true that there's no market for him right now due to the massive cap crunch. Very few teams could take him for free even if they wanted (to bolster their ES defense or PK)

But Joseph would be better than "their 11th best forward" on the vast majority of teams...

For example, did you know that only 205 forwards had more ESP (even strength points) than him in 2021-22? (and he missed 13 games)

That seems like a lot but there's 32 teams... On average, that's your 7th best scoring forward at ES

And most of his value is not about offensive production

You can dismiss all that if you want but this is all factual. I just wanted to lay out the facts for you to be able to adjust your opinion. But up to you of course

Well, the thing is that the game goes wellllllll beyond a quick hockeydb.com analysis...

If Dorion pays 2nd + 3rd to move Joseph's contract, it would just demonstrate once again how bad he is at asset management. My thread shows a much more logical and beneficial way to go about this. Hopefully that's how Dorion goes about it.

Not sure what makes you say that I think that Joseph "has positive value" right now though...


Doesn't matter if Sanderson is here or not, the plan is to have both to have 2 very strong pairings.

Sanderson - Chychrun
Chabot - Zub
Brannstrom (then Kleven) - JBD/Hamonic

I can't see Ottawa trading Chabot, at least not now.

Terrific posts, X. I appreciate the wealth of info regarding Joseph. It's really unfortunate (for him and OTT) that he seems like a cap casualty now...

As a Hawks fan, what gives me pause is his age relative to the Hawks' future and the 3 years remaining on his deal. Davidson has assiduously avoided acquiring or giving terms to players longer than two years, because, well, the Hawks are going to (hopefully) have a bunch of kids matriculating into the show then. Even with 3 years on Joseph's contract, he'll prolly be long gone by the time the Hawks are relevant (let alone contending for the Cup).

The sad truth is that, essentially, most of the "value" the Hawks would get in such a deal would consist of what comes with Joseph, not from him. If a 1st rounder is out of the question, how about OTT's '25 2nd plus Thomson (for F/C)? I know Thomson has yet to put it all together (like many kids, he's been inconsistent) but the Hawks might be willing to take a flyer on him because their RD prospect pool is pretty thin right now. (It's always a crap shoot to assess which kid will make it.)

Thoughts? TIA...

😂

Thanks for the comments

OTT's '25 2nd plus Thomson would be too rich for my liking as well. I'd much rather trade Kubalik and keep Joseph instead


Here's a comparison I made between the 2 players

Kubalik is a pretty decent offensive player but look at the other Sens players, there won't be a lot of PP time available... Kubalik scored 17 of his 45 pts on the PP last season

Over the last 2 years, Kubalik has 51 ESP despite only missing 5 games. Joseph has 45 ES + PK pts despite missing 39 games...

So Joseph has a better scoring rate at ES (1.58 pts per 60 ES minutes vs 1.53 for Kubalik), is quite better defensively and is a TOP PK forward in the NHL.

What was Ottawa's weakness last season? 5v5, they finished 25th in GF%

Kubalik's contract (1 year vs 2.5 AAV) makes him attractive and would return a decent pick while clearing 2.5 AAV

Joseph's is a cap casualty (3 years vs 2.95 AAV) and would cost a decent pick to move


Plus, Kubalik will want a pretty significant raise if he puts good numbers in Ottawa... something that we won't be able to afford (as we might go after a bigger fish if Tarasenko is not kept) or want (risky contract for Kubalik?)

I know which guy I want traded. Ideally I'd want both but we still have so much dead money, no choice.

Well, we Hawks fan know about Kubalik, of course... I agree with you. I'd rather have Joseph than Kubalik, as well. Cheers