This Marner stuff is hilarious

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Created by: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs

Initial Creation Date: Jun. 21, 2019

Published: Jun. 21, 2019

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

I can't get enough of how so many people blow everything out of proportion.

Want a prediction? On Wednesday of next week, Ferris asks a few GM's what they would offer in an offer sheet scenario and no one offers 11+. At that time, he comes back to Dubas and says team A will offer 7 x 10.5 and Dubas says, well we will offer 8 x 10 and that is our final offer. At which time, Marner will sign with TO or he'll get an offer sheet which TO will match.

Either way this whole 11+ nonsense is just comical. Its all speculation and conjecture based on a quote from Bob McKenzie that is taken out of context. He's said that Marner's camp wants to be in the ball park of Matthews. What that means has never been specifically said. MacKenzie also said that the ask was for the dollar amount and not term. What I take away from that is Marner wants north of 10 but knows as a winger, he's going to have to take a longer term to get it.

So what is going to happen? Marner will sign with TO next week and everyone is going to be so disappointed.

Kapanen will be traded and for a fair value and many Leaf fans will lose there minds because somehow he became a superstar last season.

Johnsson I feel may go to arbitration but that isn't certain.

Zaitsev will be traded and it will either be for a small return or be for way more than everyone in the world seems to think.

The reality of the situation is, fan emotion is at an all time high, and its being fueled by lazy reporting from sensational reporters like Kypreos, Friedman and others. They are not reporting facts but rumours and speculating wildly based of a very small amount of information.

Its all a big joke.

Free Agent Signings

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Marner, Mitchell	8	$10,500,000
Johnsson, Andreas	2	$3,200,000
Kapanen, Kasperi	2	$2,800,000

Trades

TOR

Fasching, Hudson [RFA Rights]

Additional Details:

Marleau is bought out. Also I just used Fasching as a placeholder, the purpose is Arizona will free up a contract slot by dumping a prospect that they hold no value in and TO sends him to the ECHL.

ARI

TOR

Tanev, Christopher ($2,225,000 retained)

Additional Details:

Doesn't have to be Borgman but the 2nd and a younger defenceman should be enough to get Vancouver to retain some salary. They are still rebuilding and a cost controlled top 4 RHD (what a stupid designation) is a good plan of action for the Canucks and has been rumoured to happen.

VAN

Borgman, Andreas
Zaitsev, Nikita
2020 2nd round pick (TOR)

TOR

2020 3rd round pick (EDM)

EDM

Brown, Connor

Buyouts

Mikhail Grabovski: $0

Retained Salary Transactions

Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2020
2021
2022

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$82,000,000	$77,470,532	$0	$797,500	$4,529,468

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Johnsson, Andreas $3,200,000$3,200,000 LW, RW UFA - 4	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000$11,634,000 C UFA - 5	Marner, Mitchell $10,500,000$10,500,000 RW UFA - 6
Moore, Trevor $775,000$775,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Tavares, John $11,000,000$11,000,000 C, LW NMC UFA - 6	Nylander, William $6,962,366$6,962,366 RW UFA - 5
Mikheyev, Ilya $925,000$925,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Kadri, Nazem $4,500,000$4,500,000 C M-NTC UFA - 3	Kapanen, Kasperi $2,800,000$2,800,000 RW UFA - 3
Petan, Nicolas $775,000$775,000 C, LW, RW UFA - 2	Gauthier, Frédérik $675,000$675,000 C UFA - 1	Engvall, Pierre $925,000$925,000 RW, LW UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000$5,000,000 LD UFA - 3	Tanev, Christopher $2,225,000$2,225,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000$5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 2
Muzzin, Jake $4,000,000$4,000,000 LD UFA - 1	Liljegren, Timothy $863,333$863,333 ($400,000$400K) RD RFA - 3	Sparks, Garret $750,000$750,000 G UFA - 1
Rosén, Calle $750,000$750,000 LD UFA - 2	Holl, Justin $675,000$675,000 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Marchment, Mason $767,500$767,500 ($132,500$132K) LW, RW UFA - 1		Horton, Nathan $5,300,000$5,300,000 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
Kivihalme, Teemu $792,500$792,500 ($132,500$132K) LD UFA - 1		Dermott, Travis $863,333$863,333 LD/RD UFA - 1
Lindgren, Jesper $775,833$775,833 ($132,500$132K) RD UFA - 2		Hyman, Zach $2,250,000$2,250,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 2

Jun. 21, 2019 at 1:56 p.m.

Price_is_the_goat

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i think marner hold out till july 2nd. on july 1st, after nylander 8mill bonus is paid, the leafs trade him. that cap space goes towards marner and getting a right shot D. im pretty sure teams will pay him 11 plus mill. he's a 22 year old 90 point winger. the market has gone up. skinner and hayes were massive overpayments, i get that, but the markets gone up imo. maybe they trade kadri instead and then sign marner.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 1:56 p.m.

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

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Agreed. I don't think he's getting less than 10.5M but realistically, offer sheeting him at 11M+ just isn't even worth it anymore. Its one thing to go nuts in free agency and get a real good player for 11M like Tavares. Its another thing adding that 11M dollar player AND losing 4 1st round draft picks to do it. There are a very select few players who may actually be worth it but its really just McDavid honestly.

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Jun. 21, 2019 at 1:57 p.m.

Propeller09

Joined: Jun. 2016

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Those aren't the rumors. He doesn't want to sign long term because he is betting on himself.

Pmwalker liked this.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 1:57 p.m.

Pmwalker

Joined: Apr. 2019

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Marner turned down 8 years at 11 million.
He wants 5 years. He’s betting on himself being worth more when the deal ends in 5 years. Leafs aren’t getting years 6,7, or 8 at that caphit.

Propeller09 liked this.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:02 p.m.

Pmwalker

Joined: Apr. 2019

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And at this point it’s San Jose or he stays as it pertains to Marleau. Small chance you could trade him to a team to buy him out but that will cost you asset(s).

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:08 p.m.

Propeller09

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I also think Toronto should and will and match any offer he receives.

All this "lazy reporting" you are complaining about is pretty much from Marner's camp or Dubas.

Dubas saying they might not match is a game of chicken with Marner. They know he wants to be in Toronto.

If a team makes an offer sheet on him, he still won't sign long term and I don't see a team giving up (4) 1sts for 4-5 years...

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:08 p.m.

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Price_is_the_goat

Trading Nylander isn't going to happen. His contract is hilariously awesome now. He's 23 and is only going to get better, Skinner getting 9 and Hayes over 7 makes Nylander's contract look like an absolute steel.

As for Marner, an offersheet is going to cost a team 4 1st rounders. The teams that can afford that, are either teams that are just bottoming out, or are trying to move up, does Marner want to go from a team that is about to hit its stride and contend for the cup to a team that is still building? Do these teams want to gut their drafting and developing system for the next 4 years for a small, dynamic winger? I am not convinced that any huge offer sheets are coming. Marner isn't the best winger in the game, top 10 probably but to make him a top 5 earner seems a pretty big stretch. I imagine come Wednesday when he's eligible to discuss contracts with other teams, Ferris is going to find that the 11 million mark isn't attainable. At which point I think the two sides settle around the 10-10.5 mark on a long term deal.

The point here is the Leafs aren't going to get smoked, they have a lot of options and a tonne of good prospects coming up to replace guys leaving. I'd still like to see a defenceman added but I think that won't happen until closer to the deadline next season. See what you have first before you can really know what you need.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:11 p.m.

corsiagainst

Joined: Jun. 2018

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oh right. So in short, everything will work out exactly perfect for leafs. got it. rolling eyes

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:11 p.m.

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Propeller09

Those aren't the rumors. He doesn't want to sign long term because he is betting on himself.

That has never been said, the only thing that is remotely close to that is when McKenzie said his camp wants to be in the ballpark of Matthews, in terms of cap hit, not necessarily in length of contract. That is pretty clearly translated to he wants close to Matthews money but is open to a longer term. That is betting on himself. He's 22 and is going to make 10+ million until he's 30! That isn't taking a pay cut its a deadly deal for him and its a fair deal.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:11 p.m.

#10

jluqueSF

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Quoting: Pmwalker

And at this point it’s San Jose or he stays as it pertains to Marleau. Small chance you could trade him to a team to buy him out but that will cost you asset(s).

here is the other option for PM12. day 1 of the season his precious consecutive games streak is cancelled, and the leafs are forced to press box him as Moore/Bracco/Myhelev/Engvall/etc show in camp they deserve the bottom 6 wing spots, or accept a trade with the condition he is bought out and then he can sign anywhere he likes. Patty has been a hell of a player and mentor, but business is business

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Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:12 p.m.

#11

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Pmwalker

Marner turned down 8 years at 11 million.
He wants 5 years. He’s betting on himself being worth more when the deal ends in 5 years. Leafs aren’t getting years 6,7, or 8 at that caphit.

That has never been reported, you just either made this up, or read it on here and take it as the truth.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:13 p.m.

#12

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Pmwalker

And at this point it’s San Jose or he stays as it pertains to Marleau. Small chance you could trade him to a team to buy him out but that will cost you asset(s).

As this trade did cost the Leafs assets. Bracco was a beast in AHL and looks like he'll be a good NHL player in the near future. Arizona gets him for buying out Marleau.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:16 p.m.

#13

Propeller09

Joined: Jun. 2016

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Edited Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:28 p.m.

Quoting: LoganOllivier

"Dreger reports that while Marner isn't believed to be seeking a deal in the $11 million AAV range, he also isn't interested in a max term and will begin visiting with other teams next week if a deal can't be reached".
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1142104969765457920

4 x 10.5 = 44M
4 x 13m = 52m (UFA)
96m over 8 years.

8 x 10.5m = 84m

He could get more than the 13m too depending on Cap. There was a big jump in Cap when Vegas came in the league and I assume Seattle will have same effect.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:17 p.m.

#14

Laudan

Joined: Jul. 2018

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Quoting: Pmwalker

Marner turned down 8 years at 11 million.
He wants 5 years. He’s betting on himself being worth more when the deal ends in 5 years. Leafs aren’t getting years 6,7, or 8 at that caphit.

Do we have sources for that ? or was it on PHI twitter again ?

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:18 p.m.

#15

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

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Quoting: Pmwalker

Marner turned down 8 years at 11 million.
He wants 5 years. He’s betting on himself being worth more when the deal ends in 5 years. Leafs aren’t getting years 6,7, or 8 at that caphit.

Sorry, no one but Leafs management, Marner and agent knows if he was offered 11m X 8 and he turned it down.
He might "bet on himself" as you suggest as sign shorter term. He might see what is available as a RFA and decide to sign with the Leaf long term. But please no one know on this site knows what Marner was offered.

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Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:20 p.m.

#16

Ichbinian

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Arizona doesn't have the cap space for Marleau. And keep in mind there's no cap hit savings from his buyout.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:21 p.m.

#17

A_K

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Buying out a 35+ yr old's contract doesn't affect the cap hit, so ARI would be getting Bracco for taking on 6.25m, and Marleau would have to agree to the deal and then hope that SJS has money to offer him a contract so he can play next year. ARI has about 7m in cap space right now, and players to sign... with news of the cap ceiling coming in lower than expected, I don't see SJS or ARI being able to make this work, but you never know. Seems more likely that Marleau elects to stay in TOR.

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Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:33 p.m.

#18

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Propeller09

Well 1st off, Dubas never mentioned Marner. He was asked about offer sheets for his RFA's and he said, its not a foregone conclusion that we will match any and all offer sheets. That is an honest response and he was talking about all the RFA's and he's not wrong. If someone offers Kapanen 5 years at 6 and a half million, TO would be utterly stupid to match that.

So is it playing chicken? Or is it a reasonable response from an insightful GM that refuses to play the Burke style games that others enjoy.

Of course the media blows it way out of proportion by attaching it Marner when Dubas did not in fact mention him.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:36 p.m.

#19

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: corsiagainst

oh right. So in short, everything will work out exactly perfect for leafs. got it. rolling eyes

I am not sure how anything is perfect. In a perfect world Marner signs an 8 year deal at 9.5. Kapanen and Johnsson sign deals for less than 3 for 3 years and Zaitsev is traded for a 1st and Tanev and somehow the Leafs also get Seth Jones for being nice.

The defence still has holes and the Leafs did lose Bracco to get Marleau off the books. That's a pretty steep price.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:39 p.m.

#20

Propeller09

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Quoting: LoganOllivier

It's negotiating and he was clearly trying to send a message to Marner. He knows his relationship with Matthews, and he knows he wants to stay. He will be back with the Leafs. It will be 4 x 10.5 if I had to guess. Which is what he wants.

Dubas is probably hoping someone swoops in with 7 x 11-12 because that's the deal he wants and he would match.

If a team comes in with 5-7 x 13m+ he takes the picks because as good as Marner is - it's hard to win with a winger taking that much cap space. Thus, they would likely be lottery picks.

my main point was the media blowing it out of proportion is because of Dubas and Marner. They both want the fan reaction, but for different reasons. It also allows them both to gauge where they stand.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:39 p.m.

#21

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Propeller09

I think Dubas is waiting for next week when Marner can ask other teams to give him some numbers. I highly doubt anyone is going to throw that kind of money at a winger unless its a long term deal so any offer sheet is going to come in at 7 years. If the offers aren't much higher than TO's offer, Marner will have to come to terms with a lower value and a deal will be signed. If those offers are higher than Dubas will have to up his game to get the deal done. Next week is a negotiation tool. I'd say that a huge 11+ million dollar deal is highly unlikely to come from anyone. Giving up that much money to 1 player and also losing your next 4 1st rounders, is a massive cost.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:41 p.m.

#22

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Ichbinian

Arizona doesn't have the cap space for Marleau. And keep in mind there's no cap hit savings from his buyout.

Arizona definitely has the cap space, they have over 12 million when Hossa is on LTIR.

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:42 p.m.

#23

Ryminister_27

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Quoting: Pmwalker

Marner turned down 8 years at 11 million.
He wants 5 years. He’s betting on himself being worth more when the deal ends in 5 years. Leafs aren’t getting years 6,7, or 8 at that caphit.

& the Leafs aren't giving Marner a 4 or 5 year deal. So as my prediction all along has been, it likely ends up a short term bridge deal, 2-3 years now then when the new TV deal, Seattle, and escrow changes are made, the cap is gonna get a big jump in about 3 years, he can cash in then.

I'd also like to see this article where you read that he turned down 8 years x $11M.. there's been no reports out stating that. The last offer that was leaked wasn't one after the season had ended and was 8 years x $9.5M, which he obviously rejected. So source?

Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:45 p.m.

#24

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: A_K

Could be and if that is the case then Kapanen is gone without a doubt and very possibly Kadri as well. But again that is all up in the air. San Jose is definitely interested in bringing Marleau back if its league min deal so the buy out is the only way it happens.

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Jun. 21, 2019 at 2:49 p.m.

#25

Price_is_the_goat

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Quoting: LoganOllivier

marner will get paid what he wants. the leafs gave in to nylander. they will have to keep marner. i can see them trading kadri as well. a team like the rangers, which does have a brighter future then the leafs can offer 4 1st rd picks. they will be contender within the next 2 years. the isles could as well. but i dont think he accepts an offer sheet. if he doesn't get 11, i can see the leafs trading him tbh. i just find it hilarious that all year long, leafs fans scream happily that marner is a top 5 winger in the league, but when it comes down to contract numbers he's "smallish" and 10 other wingers are bettter then him. double standards are real

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