Matthews signed quickly, before teams figured out how little the salary cap was going up. Marner might be able to get that kind of money next year if he keeps improving, and gets an offer-sheet in early July, but he waited too long to get it this year, anywhere.

Teams don't have cap space to pay anyone 11.6M, in September. Matthews gave up zero UFA years and signed instead for the kind of term that other teams could offer-sheet him to. I wonder if there wasn't talk of a possible offer-sheet, throwing things off.

There's certainly an argument to be made that neither Matthews nor Marner needs to make over 10M based on what they've shown, so far, especially in the postseason, but there's also an argument to be made that the Leafs could trade away Ceci for a cheaper cap dump like Benning or Roussel, sign Marner at 8x12, and stay in contention for the next five years.

I'm not sure where you get that logic from, because Leaf fans were the hardest on Gardiner and it wasn't even close.



Fixed that for you. On the open market, someone would have more likely to give him $11.6m if they didn't have to give Toronto the picks also. Marner was a more productive forward than Panarin and look what he got on the open market.

New market. RFAs are getting paid and teams aren't giving older UFAs as much money anymore.

Goals and centreman get more money for some reason

You know the second he signs that deal he's all of a sudden overpaid and overrated. These are the same people who claimed Matthews was worth 13 million and when he signed was overpaid. Basically, they overrate unsigned Leafs

Because both those teams best players make between 6-6.9 million, but now it's stupid? Oh, it's only reasonable when it's used against the Leafs, I see.

League comparables have been used for a long time, it's not a new concept. GMs use them and so do arbitrators and this method is not going away overnight. People don't have to like this but it is what it is.

You can’t be serious. The Leafs would be a far BETTER team if Marner wasn’t in the lineup. All the guy is capable of doing is slipping and falling every time he steps onto the ice and makes bad decisions with the puck. He completely relied on Tavares to make him look decent and now people are acting as if he’s the best winger on the team. Mitch Marner isn’t even better than Connor Brown.

No, it's stupid because you're ignoring what MacKinnon and Scheifele did immediately before signing their deals. But go on with the "everyone is against us poor Leaf fans" narrative. It's cute.

Yup, that's exactly what will happen.

I'm aware they're a thing. I'm saying they don't matter for Marner because Dubas already threw out league comparisons for Matthews and Nylander.

Yes youth are getting more. But there is still no arguing that UFAs have more leverage as they can negotiate with everyone unrestricted

This argument is what created this whole thread. If he's traded he loses that argument

That's the way it's supposed to be. It's crazy what some RFAs are getting paid, wish more GMs would toss out offer sheets so there would be an easier way to determine what a RFA is actually worth.

Maybe, but they'd still probably use Matthews got that much and Marner out-produced him on the same team to get as much money as possible.

For the record, I don't think Marner is worth anywhere near what he's asking but it's a business and I can't fault him for trying. None of these guys care more about winning than they do making money, if they cared about winning they'd sign for half what they're signing for and make up the difference on Cup winner endorsement deals.

I can't blame them for wanting their piece of the pie. They're the product.

Especially when you look at other leagues and a #3-4 starter in the NBA gets $15 million. Or a crappy qb who can be a starter but not be good at it gets like $16 mil

You can believe whatever you want regarding the Matthews contract but that doesn't mean Dubas has to continue whatever overpay train you think he started.
Marner has rights and can choose to ask for whatever he wants including sitting the year but the Leafs have choices too which include sticking to the deals they have offered.

I've said this before and say it again: younger, more talented players getting paid more will be a CBA issue for the NHLPA more than it will be an issue for owners/teams.
Again, I'm not against players getting paid what their worth but things suddenly changing overnight/midst of a CBA? Come on...use abit more brain power and actually make a logical argument. My logic is based on the realities of how this league is and has operated.

How about you use any brain power and understand where the basis of Marner wants top dollar is coming from. I never said I agree, I'm only saying where the argument comes from.

It's not based on principle, imo. It's based on fragile egos.

But Marner taking the year off to go make maybe 1M playing overseas somewhere, while he gives up 8M + would certainly teach the leafs a lesson..

Weird that, isn't it? It's almost like the league puts more value on that..

Let me ask you one question. Those Goals....did them scorers pick the puck in neutral zone, make all the way to the goal, throw out of the game both Ds and the Goalie and then score ? In all 30-40 cases they make per Season ? well....heres a breaking news for you.....in 85-90 % they have a playmaker who feeds them.....Tavares just jumped into 40 Goals Club first time in his career....guess who was on his wing.....

C'mon, Laudan. That's a pretty black and white take on thigs, there's some shades of grey in between.

JT jumped up in goals, sure, but not much of a jump in points. Marner jumped by 30 points or so. That's not a dig at Marner, its just to reemphasize what JT has done for his wingers during his career. AM meanwhile, has put up his numbers over the last 3 yrs playing mostly with rookies.

Marner is a special kind of player. But he's no where near as rare, or as valued league wide, as a 6ft 3, 225 franchise centre who has outscored everyone 5 v 5 since he's entered the league. You just don't find guys like that, and they get paid as a result. Also, do you see anyone else growing a stache like AM? No waaay Marner can do that


Marner is valuable, maybe a top 10 winger in the league, and he'll get paid as such. He's also an rfa and that still means something. But he's not a top 5 player in league and he won't get paid like it...No matter how much he demands it.. and no matter how much his camp stomps their feet or how long they try to hold their breath..

He doesn't have the kind of leverage he needs to get what he wants. It might take him walking away from 8M + and losing a year of NHL playing time while he plays overseas for him to understand that and for his ego to catch up with reality..

Otherwise, I see him starting the year on time with a nice 9.3M/3 yr contract in hand. Which is still an overpay, imo, but represents concessions from both sides.

So here is a fact: there is about 1.7 assists per goal in the NHL (http://www.behindthenet.ca/historical_assists_per_goal.php, unfortunately the data only goes to early 2000s, I'd be happy to be corrected with more up to date data).

Thus by definition it is easier to get an assist than a goal. Every time there is a scoring play there is at least one goal, and up to two assists, on avereage 1.7. A goal is thus by definition more valuable.

As well for every play that is greatly set up by an assist, I can raise you both a silly assist that was just someone who touched the puck 15 seconds earlier, also a guy who does all the work to set up the goal by forechecking hard but being the imaginary 3rd assist, or most importantly a playmaker putting the puck on the stick of a guy in a great situation who can't convert because they're not good enough.

Goals are worth more than assists. They always have been, and they always will be.

Of course there are shades of grey, thats what im trying to point out, those things are always mutual, its a teams game, so as much as you need a pointer, you also need provider, both Tavares and Marner benefited from playing together, the only setback is Marner made it in the signing year.

And again, like it or not or being annoyed by it, i will say....Matthews just got paid 2M for 10 Points ( and thats on 5 years ) while since the Cap Era the much fool-proof simplified equation till now was 10 Points bring you 1M for 8y and in case of Generational or Franchise players some bigger bucks were thrown on the top, but still not the double of it. With Matthews being signed properly, as we all were claiming last year in the range of 8 x 11M ( and even that would be quite an overpayment ) should end in 5 x 9,5M and Marner would be signed for 6 x 9,5M already today.