Cocaine kuzy and jets would be more receptive

this is bad for
Winnipeg.

If Laine would take 6x3 contract, WPG would've already signed him.

Kuzy value is much higher than laine this is laughable.

Yeah getting a top pairing defenseman and a 45-50 point forward.... for a winger that’s was a -24 with 50 points last year. Man jets are getting bent over a barrel haha ?

Vrana had 3 less points and was +44 better. Only one year and plus minus hardly matters but yeahlaine sucks defensively I’d take Vrana and Orlov over laine all day. It’s not even close

Capitals could get a way better player for that package.... hard pass

This screams tverdovsky and kilger for selanne, and laine costs more, probably break the caps budget

So orlov has M-NTC, doubt Winnipeg isn’t on his no trade list LOL and he ain’t waiting to come here.

Calm down with the top pairing defenseman je average 20 minutes only twice simce coming to the league. He doesn’t have the pedigree of a noris contender. And he is turning 28 not
The kind of return Winnipeg is interested in. I mean he is a good defenseman but you are completely out of the track if you think that orlov can brings you a young gun like laine.
For vrana he is 2 years older and have a 100 less career point. This return is pure bullshat
Keep your players winnipeg don’t want that crap

Over the last four seasons, Orlov is tied for 8th among left shot defensemen in even strength points with McDonagh, at 109. http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=1&report=skaterpoints&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20152016&seasonTo=20182019&gameType=2&leftyOrRighty=L&position=D&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints,points

Obviously McDonagh's trade value is established, so that means the Caps have to throw in a young player half as good as Vrana to get back a late first, two high-round busts, and a cap dump. How does Tampa do it?

In that time, Trouba has 92. Subban has 103. Doughty has 108. Weber has 79. Orlov is better at offense, over the last four years, than guys who get into the Norris trophy conversation like Trouba, Subban, Doughty, and Weber. Last year Orlov finished with one more even strength point than Karlsson, McAvoy, or Klingberg. On twenty other teams, Orlov would play most of the power plays. In Washington, Ovechkin plays almost all of the power plays at left point. Orlov leads returning Capitals defensemen in short handed time on ice per game, defensive zone starts, and expected goals for percentage. He is Washington's best defensive defenseman, and he is arguably better and more consistent on offense than most active guys with Norris trophies, leaving out Karlsson and Burns.

He just can't crack the Caps' top power play behind Carlson and Ovechkin. That didn't hurt Mike Green's or Kevin Shattenkirk's value, as UFAs. Shattenkirk obviously lost a step, later, but should be fun to watch this year in Tampa, where he can challenge Sergachev for the right point on a top power play with three 90-point forwards, and people might claim Shattenkirk magically became talented, again. How does Tampa do it? Winnipeg just wisely traded for a kid who was good enough to steal Shattenkirk's power play time, getting Pionk from New York. Smart move. Should work out. Orlov is as good as Shattenkirk, on offense, and as good as anyone in Washington on defense, but, yeah, he's 28. In top-pair defenseman years, his time to be great probably comes down to just the next five to seven seasons. He's signed for the next five seasons at five million and change. It's not cheap, but it's way cheaper than Weber, Suter, Carlson....

Another guy who can't crack Washington's top power play is Jacub Vrana. Since Ovechkin plays defense on the power play, there shouldn't be anyone ahead of Vrana at LW, except that Evgeny Kuznetsov has had that spot for three years and isn't giving it up any time soon. Vrana tied for 14th last year in even strength points by a listed left wing, along with Evander Kane and Zach Parise. They each had 43 points, at evens. Laine got 27, which would tie him for 46th with Ferland, Iafallo, and Byron, but he's oddly listed at right wing. It is entirely likely that Laine would massively improve, playing 2L with Backstrom and Oshie, instead of 1L without them, but it's also possible that he wouldn't, and the Caps can't really afford that risk, at the price of someone who's currently more productive in the type of minutes available.... let alone throw in their best defensive defenseman, who scores slightly more than Jacob Trouba.



Winnipeg's got a great hockey team. Anybody who wants to win the Stanley Cup should be thrilled to play there. And they're building for long-term success, around great young players like Patrick Laine.... I think it's the Caps that have to pass on this one, because their window is this year and next year, so from their perspective, Orlov is the most valuable player in the trade, and they're adding a wing they probably expect to keep improving and push for 30-30-60 at 2L this year, to get back a wing who might not speak as much Swedish, might not mesh as well with Backstrom, might have some jitters after getting traded, and might also get about 30-30-60 at 2L this year, if he were traded to Washington.

If the asking price were Vrana + Djoos, it might be an interesting gamble... but then the salary cap doesn't work out. If Holtby, with a long-term extension, was worth enough to some team that they'd trade something worth Laine, then something around Holtby and Djoos could be interesting. Maybe Laine, with his proven power play skills, bumps Kuznetsov off the top unit. Then maybe a 2nd unit with Orlov, Kuznetsov, and Vrana can get things going. The demand for goalies this summer seems to be zero outside the state of Florida, though, where they're all worth $10M, forever.

One of the worst Laine trades I’ve seen

This is brutal for Winnipeg. Orlov is good but he isnt elite, and Vrana doesnt touch the potential of Laine or the same generational skill.

Leaves Washington without a 2C, once Backstrom moves back up to 1C. Add in Perrault 50% off, for Hagelin, and we'll talk?

Agreed, but not for the reason most people are saying.



I just explained this:



Like, I just explained how Orlov is better at offense than Subban. That he's better on defense should be self-evident. And now you're saying Orlov isn't elite. What does that make the guy in your screenname, P.K.?

What's me being a fan of Subban have to do with whether or not Orlov is elite? Plus you're trying to say he is better offensively, which isnt true, your only using even strength numbers because it suits your arguement. Orlov has a career high of 33 points, that's Subbans low seasons.

All in all this is just homerism. Vrana and Orlov are no where close to the value of Laine. Would Washinton have traded Ovi for Nicklas Kronwall and Jiri Hudler in 2006? Because that's basically what this trade is, and that's being very generous comparing Orlov to Kronwall and Vrana to Hudler.

Vrana was the breakout star who led an awful team to a surprise silver medal at the WJHC, becoming a first round pick. Then he was the breakout rookie offensive sensation who put Washington over the edge for a Stanley Cup.

Laine played on a great WJHC line with the MVP of the tournament, and some guy who's gonna be Montreal's #1C for a long time.

I honestly am using even strength points because Orlov and Vrana don't get power play time in Washington. Vrana is more valuable to the Caps this year than Laine, straight up, because he got 20 more even strength points last year. I don't think Ovechkin, even as a rookie, scored as little as Laine does at evens, but I have to go to work now, feel free to look it up and get the last word in!

I know Laine is one dimensional, but his numbers speak for themselves , when he shoots he scores. At his age that means unlimited potential. That potential is his trade value, which is high, very high. Just like he wants his salary to be, which I think is his biggest trade negative. No one worries about teaching a 21 year old 40 goal scorer how to play defense or be more effective 5 on 5, that's video room stuff and if he gets that he is generational. What worries me with Laine is having to teach that stuff to a guy already making $10 million. Your arguement should have been centered around that, not trying to convince me Vrana and Orlov are more valuable then Laine, because that's not gonna happen this summer (maybe in a couple years, if Laine doesnt get it and Vrana gets pp time and puts up numbers).

I mean I was very clear saying I would rather keep my players. And top pairing defenseman is what he is sorry pal if that’s too heavy for you. 100 less career points in what 80 less games. Ha amazing take dude w your brilliant takes you should write for nhl.com. Laine isn’t needed in dc we are stacked at rw. Also in win now so we don’t need to teach somebody how to play defense. Keep laine. He needs talent to support him

Yeah ......
1) he’s a defenseman who doesn’t play the power play bc we have Carlson who put up 75 points on that top unit. So 5v5 was him helping you understand that P K who is considered elite is equivalent to orlov 5v5 offensively.

Laine shoots he scores? He had 30 goals last year. He had 1 40 goal season and averaged 17 minutes a games. His career high is 70 points. Man what a generational talent there. You’re so lost it’s laughable. Laine lucky that by career end he’s considered elite.

Back to Eli point. Take laine off the power play last year he has 15 goals 26 less points. He had 50 total. Vrana has limited power play time and finished 3 points less. Laine won’t be top power play in DC we Ovechkin an actual generational all time great. Laine also turn overs the puck 2x more than he takes it away.


Also Ovechkin score 50 rookie years he’s. Almost won the rocket he’s not a scrub. Never compare Ovechkin to laine. Is. It even close. I bet you compare Matthews to Crosby also. Ugh little buddies are just awful

Jesus you Washington people love jacking Orlov off, I get it he is good, still not calling him elite with a career high of 33 points on a team where all he has to do for an assist is throw it up to a generational goal scorer or help out on a play with one of the highest goal scoring teams in the NHL over the past five years.

I mean he had a 30 goal season at 18, 40 goal season at 19 and regressed with 30 goals this year at 20, which is the same age Ovechkin finally got to play and put up his 50 goal rookie year, so I think the jury is still out on where Laine goes from here.

You know you're losing a debate when you start being ignorant, that last comment pretty much sealed it.

Not just you it’s everyone on the site loves to compare Ovechkin to guys. It’s not close. Ovechkin comparables are 99 66 87 bossy guys like thAt

Also laine isn’t getting elite talent back. Nobody is trading Carlson or Jones let alone a younger version for him. Marner for Jones is even a joke. Really solid dman with young stud like Vrana at a reasonable cap is far more valuable than paying laine 9-10 million.

I only compare him in the way that he is a prolific goal scorer that has that one timer at the top of the circle. Shrugging off his accomplishments as an elite goal scorer isnt right either though because Laine has proven that's the one thing he can do in this league.

How you think Laine wouldn't bring back elite talent back in a trade value is where you're delusional. I agree that him at $10 million is ridiculous but thinking that he wouldn't fetch multiple 1st round picks, plus a roster player and a prospect is wrong. Hell the ask from Carolina was apparently Svechnicov AND Pesce for christ sake. Orlov and Vrana are good but Washington would still have to add to that package to out bid other teams because I can guarantee you Winnipeg would say no to that in a heart beat.

You thinking Marner, Point, or Draisaitl? Obviously you'd have to add for Drai, because he's signed, and would fit the cap, but the other two, with the uncertainty of holdouts, might be reasonable. TB seems like the spot that would value Orlov the most, not just because they traded so much for McDonagh, who has the same skill level, is about as solid on defense, and has one less Cup, but also because Orlov and Sergachev together could be pretty sick, and Vrana's speed and playmaking could replace everything that Tampa's top six loses when it downgrades at 2C from Point to Johnson.

@Eli first the only defenseman you mentioned that hasn’t miss significant time is doughty, weber, trouba, subban, (karlson, mcaavoy and klingberg all last season) all miss significant time so its not surprising that he add more point then guys who miss big portion of the season. Making a point with injured guys doesn’t really help. Orlov was the third defenseman use last year by Washington behing carlson and niskanen. Orlov is good but he is what he is a shutdown defenseman. He olay very similar then vlasic in SJ. Most of is point are secondary assist. Orlov as more
Value in Washington then via a trade.
Plus the point here was the trade proposal of
Laine vs orlov and vrana and the value isnt what winnipeg would look for. Orlov is 28 and vrana is turning 24. Even in a down year he managed more point then vrana who was playing with a top centerman in kuzn and backstom. Laine as played with a top center only 20 games in the last 3 season. Washington doesn’t have the pieces that would interest the jets in a trade, plus Washington this season might be all in because next 2 season big time decision will be taken so they must win now because after that it will be a new challenge.

I mean who on the trade do you feel is elite. Pesce is orlov level talent and Svechnicov who might become a 50 points guy? Had 37 points in his rookie year? At best he’s what 60 points guy worst case 40 points? So you critiqued orlov and vrana and propose an almost identical trade? Come on man who’s elite there?


https://public.tableau.com/profile/christopher.turtoro#!/vizhome/2-yearA3ZPlayerComps/ComparisonDashboard

Orlov vs pesce..... and draft position would be a weak argument for the other 2

Victor mete played top pair last year with montreal, cody ceci played top pair in ottawa!
So this proved my point he is a very good shutdown defenseman but that about it.
For vrana, he is 2 years older and have 100 less point in 65 fewer games so yes he is by far a worst player then laine. Vrana at 21 years of age add 6 point in nhl so the comparison isn’t even close. Those players have more values to Washington now then for a trade and even more if you trade for laine because it cost a lot more to get him out of Winnipeg.
Plus Washington is not trading keys pieces of their line up if they add a players this years they will shop prospect and pick. With backstrom and holtby ufa next season they will
Likely go all in at the deadline