I don't think that is the point he was trying to make. More so, that Nylander has far less give aways this season and only was has directly resulted in a goal against, while Marner has had several more and many of those have lead directly to goals against.

Well Nylander was born in Calgary but Don Cherry said....

He is a One way player. They don't and won't put him on the ice with 5 mins left in the game even if they are up a couple goals. What does that tell you ?
I think he is good, But he's not a two way player.
People get on him because 7 mill is a lot for a guy that is not on the first unit PP, can't play in the last 5 mins of a game becasue you can't trust him and is overall pretty soft.

I like your post because it's a fair point...15 give aways is too much and leading to goals is certainly not a good thing, but that's just 1 year...and there are A LOT of other things Marner does. Nylander is very sheltered. Far higher OZone % starts. No PK time tiring him out. And then the elephant in the room...he's not producing results...and hasn't ever produced more than 61 points.

And they don’t put Matthews on when we are down a goal in the last 2min of a playoff game what does that tell you? Babs is a bad coach.

Nylander does his best work without the puck in the neutral zone and is just fine without the puck in his own end. Especially when playing centre.

Well that is a bunch of BS. He is definitely not just a one way player, that is just something people say. He's way above average without the puck in the offensive and neutral zones, but is probably average in the defensive zone. This whole last 5 minute stuff is firstly just wrong. The other thing is, he certainly doesn't have the trust of Babcock but really, who really knows what it takes to get that trust. Mikheyev is a Babs favourite before he even stepped on the ice. Babs would rather see Hyman lose face off after face off on the PK than let Gauthier take a faceoff. Well that was more last year than this year but we'll see if he bends on that.

You really love to point to 61 points as the highest he's scored like he has a decade of experience. He is 23 years old, the best is yet to come. If he had a coach that would embrace his talents instead of wanting him to be Zack Hyman, he'd get a lot more opportunities than he currently gets from Babs.

What does best work without the puck in the neutral Zone do? That's what your going to say get's him 7 mil a year and makes him a good player? We could find a lot of players to do that.
I agree with you on Babcock, I wish their was change as well. I think he has made terrible in game coaching decsions. I do however feel that Nylander is not a winger or centreman you want in your own end at the end of a game.

Haven't read the thread. My thoughts: I don't hate Nylander, I just think Toronto fans overrate him, as they do with all the Leafs players.

Your feelings on the matter are irrelevant. The reality is, there are certain players I'd want on the ice with 1 minute to go and the Leafs up by one and Nylander probably wouldn't be on the ice for that. But neither would Marner. I'd rather see Tavares with Matthews and Shore on the ice in that situation. Why? Tavares is the most reliable defensive center. Matthews is just so dangerous and can get the puck in traffic and on the wing wouldn't have to be the down low guy in his own zone and Shore is deadly on his strong side so if he needs to take the draw he's the one I'd want on there. But Babs would likely go with Hyman, Tavares and Marner and if Tavare got tossed or the draw was on his weakside, it could result in a lost draw. Hell if its a defensive zone draw in the last minute, maybe I would put Nylander out there because unlike Marner and Hyman, he can win draws.

And that just screams, all the Leaf players are overrated because you don't like the team or the attention they get in the media, which is very ironic since you in fact just contributed to a thread about a Leafs player. I wonder if non Leaf fans will ever understand that piling onto all Leaf threads and articles to troll their fan base is literally half the reason they get so much attention. If you aren't a fan of the team, why bother?

You're right, I do like using that as a point. Results Matter. It's a results game/business. I also 100% agree with you that his best years are in the future. I'll defer to you on the coach. I do watch TOR games, but not nearly as much as you...I can admit that too.

With that said Winger is the easiest position to transition into the NHL. I'm not saying it's easy to be an NHL winger...I'm just saying compared to Center/Defense/Goal...those are all harder to break into the NHL. He's working on his 5th year in the NHL and at some point the vertical career trajectory needs to be adjusted. He's creating a water level and while I do think he can get better...It's getting harder and harder to prove because the results just aren't there.

This is entirely based on points, which is why I get annoyed with this conversation. Too many fans on here speak out both sides of their mouths on this. Nylander is overrated unless he scores a bunch of points but the rest of his game is ignored or blatantly misrepresented (he is not a one way player with zero defensive abilities, nor is he a great two way player). You your self like to talk up Saad for all the ways he's amazing that don't show up on the score sheet but for Nylander its only points. And unless he's scoring 70 or more he's overrated and not worth his contract.

Honestly what I am waiting for is for him to get on a heater, it hasn't happened for a while but when it comes, he'll score a bunch of points and goals and start pushing towards a point a game and still half the people on here will say its because of Matthews or Tavares or whatever.

Depends on your "results". If you're talking about raw point totals, you're not leveling the playing field. From 2016 through the end of last season, I looked at 5v5 P/60 rates. Nylander ranks 57th of players with over 1,000 5v5 minutes (he has about 3,000 for reference). So at 5v5 he produced more points per minute of ice time than guys like Wheeler, Boeser, Duchene, Aho, Rantanen, Connor, etc.

If you're looking for his results (raw point totals) to be top-tier, he would have to get top line minutes and top PP usage (on a quality PP team). IMO his results are there, if anything it's his usage that is curbing his trajectory.

But those are stats that show the reality of the situation, no one wants to hear that!

I think you might be seeing my side of the whole Saad situation...except it's WORSE. TOR fans have literally made posts for...Nylander for Saad, Boqvist, and a CHI 2nd. That's SOOO STUPID. You've argued on this post how Nylander compares to freaking Mitch Marner. I need to argue with people why Saad isn't a cap dump! That's the difference.

I agree. I'm not saying he's bad at all. Here's a better stat. Look at how far off Matthews stats drop without Nylander. BUT...let's not forget...if you read through this post...there was a truly serious comparison by Leafs fans to Marner vs Nylander. I'm trying to bring reality to TOR fans. Not say he stinks.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=TOR&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2018-10-03&td=2019-04-06&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8479318&p2=8477939&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0

Oh I guess I don't wanna go there lol because FWIW I'm not a Leafs fan but I think if you drop Nylander and Marner into completely identical situations, you're not gonna see a drop-off with either one. Their play/style isn't identical but I don't think that Marner is that much better really, if at all. Certainly not 50% better like the cap hits would suggest.

TOR fans....17 games played...4 goals, 7 assists, 57.2% Corsi $7M...What a STEAL...Yup he's comparable to Mitch Marner...why??? Eye test, just trust us.
15 games played...5 goals, 2 asssits, 53.4% Corsi $6M...Cap Dump...why??? Eye Test...Trust us.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, and what you're so upset about. You asked for the "global opinion of Nylander" if he wasn't a Leaf, I responded in kind. I don't dislike Nylander but I think he's overrated. Leafs fans (at least the ones I interact with) tend to think he's a superstar, whereas I do not.

As for my comment about Toronto fans overrating all of their players, you need only to look at all the Leafs AGM's on this site to realize that's true.

Not trolling, just responding to your question. I'm sorry if that has offended you.

Isn't he though? Saad doesn't look like a 6 million dollar player to me. Yes he has some intangibles that are valuable but he is getting paid like he is an offensive player and he doesn't really have that much offense. I like Saad, he's a good player, but if he's going to be compared to a player on the Leafs, he's a lot closer to Hyman than he is Nylander. Better hands than Hyman for sure but no one would move Hyman for someone like Elhers. Hyman is a 40-50 point winger who is a terrific forechecker, plays physical and can score 20 a season. Which right now, is pretty much what you can expect of Saad. Now don't take this as Saad is equal to Hyman, Saad is better. The point is, if you compare players in TO, Saad is closer to Hyman than Nylander. So trying to trade Saad for Nylander is grossly unfair which is where we have disagreed a tonne and I personally feel like you are just way out to lunch on this topic.

I do get the impression that you are similar to that Chihawk guy in the sense that you see the value of Nylander, know he's much better and way more valuable than Saad and talk him down in the hopes that his value will drop and you can get him prior to him breaking out.

I think the take away there is that Nylander and Matthews are at their best when they are together. Swap out Nylander and put Marner in there and Matthews numbers get worse. So obviously Matthews is the best player in TO.

I was just messing around with that site and checked Nylander with Ceci just for giggles. With Nylander on the ice Ceci is a 60% corsi player, without under 50. What that site tells me more than anything is that the single biggest issue with Nylander is his usage. He's played with essentially 4 fowards this season. Matthews, Johnsson and to a much lesser extent Kerfoot and Mikheyev. In all cases other than with Mikheyev (oddly enough), players are better when Nylander is on the ice. He drives play better than most players, not just on the Leafs but in the league entirely. If he was given the same PP time and 5v5 time that Marner gets, he'd likely be right there with him points wise. But Babs doesn't trust him, why? Because he's old school and unless you get mad sometimes, he doesn't think you care, which is stupid.

So you are ignoring a tonne of stuff to make your point. Which is why I don't put a lot of stock in what you are talking about. There is a lot of evidence that has been presented to you to say what lowers Nylander's point totals is not a skill drop off between him and Marner, but opportunity. Marner gets all the opportunity, I think he's currently the team leader in ice time for forwards. Nylander is playing much less than Marner and doesn't get the prime 1st pp unit time that he gets. I know you want Saad to be a real good comparison for Nylander because then you can get him for an even trade but the reality is, no one outside of the Chicago fan base will call them equal. Saad is closer to Hyman than he is Nylander and Nylander is a lot closer to Marner than he is to Saad.

It was being pointed out that defensively that Marner is better than Nylander.

I think I asked valid questions that contradict that.

I can't even. I want to think you're just messing with me, but I don't even know anymore. Somehow...in your mind a 7 point delta makes Saad a Camp Dump and Nyalnder closer to Marner. Despite Saad actually having better career possession numbers, Actually plays defense... received actual votes for the Selke, and plays some PK time too.