Matthews and Tavares are both making 11 mil a year so I totally understand you. I think it may just be Dubas being inexperienced and quick to give them the biggest offer before other teams

Okay lets go over this point by point.

His hold out affected him last season.

Yes it did, for the first 13 or 15 games or whatever he only had 1 point as he was trying to get back up to speed. After that he scored at a little bit better than a 60 point pace. So sure it did affect him holding out but it didn't hurt him, just slowed him for a little bit.

Marner gets a pass because he produces.

Not at 5v5 so far this season, and over their careers, Nylander has been the better 5v5 scorer while playing less minutes.

Marner is a 2 way player.

There actually isn't a lot of supporting evidence for this, he's really not great defensively and doesn't create as many turnovers as Nylander does who has been one of the better take away wingers over his career.

Marner kills penalties.

Sure but the Leafs PK isn't good so what are you really praising him for?

Marner did not get any Selke consideration, that is an entirely made up sentiment.

Bringing Saad into this has no baring so I won't comment on that.

Your response is a good piece of ammo though for me. Why? Because you are saying a bunch of stuff that is commonly held as correct without any real supporting evidence. Nylander is bad defensively and Marner is a two way player. This is a fact in the minds of most people but statistically speaking holds no merit. If you were to say Marner is more engaged in the defensive zone than Nylander, that would be correct to say. What is also correct to say, is that in the offensive zone and neutral zone, Nylander is the better defensive player.

So what does Nylander deserve? Not to be called overrated all the time by people who 1) don't ever watch him play and 2) haven't looked into any of the things they are using to call him overrated.

Marner did not get any Selke consideration, that is an entirely made up sentiment.

What a load of crap. Your proposal was bad. Admit it and move on. Also sounds like you haven’t watched Spurgeon very much. Reilly would thrive with Spurgeon on his pairing.

It's not that he needs to get above 100 points...it's that he can't get above 61...and doesn't appear to be doing it this year either despite getting PP time AND playing next to a #1OA pick constantly. I understand it may FEEL like people need him to get 100 points to see his talent, but if he could get into the mid 70's...OR...be able to play without Matthews/Tavares/Marner...it would be an entirely different story.

Again, you really don't watch the kid play. He plays on a second unit that looks like absolute crap right now, I am not sure what they are thinking with how they made that unit. I'd like to see the Leafs load up and play the top unit for almost the whole PP. Take Johnsson out and put Nylander on the top unit. Let Nylander play behind the net and the half boards and put Matthews and Tavares closer to the net. Or put Marner downlow and Nylander in his spot. Nylander has a better shot than Marner and has a knack for turning defenders around and when you do that you can open up back door plays more.

As for not being able to play with Matthews or Tavares, again you are showing you are just saying stuff that you think and don't really know what you are talking about.

He is the possession driver on the team, everyone sees better offensive numbers when playing with Nylander. Literally everyone. He does play a lot with Matthews and no one can really say its not working, its been the best line at 5v5 for the Leafs and they'll see more points as they go. Matthews isn't even hot yet and Nylander has been a bit snake bitten. You did mention Tavares in there as well and this is why I say you don't know what you are talking about. Nylander never plays with Tavares. That just doesn't happen, and the fact you mentioned it proves that you are just talking without any basis of understanding on the topic. You are a hawks fan and don't watch the leafs but you have read stuff on here and other places and take it as truth without questioning it.

Just going to fact check you here. Marner was 14th in the selke voting last year. Did he win it...no, but that list has 29 people on it. https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2019.html#selke

Nylander has literally 71 less take aways in his career than Marner. (251 - 180 = 71) and playing the PK over Nylander is very important. It literally means Marner is a better option than Nylander because he's the one that goes out there to do the job.

By the way...this is supporting evidence. NOT typing 5V5 and then just talking more. I'm providing the evidence you're looking for. You're not providing any evidence at all.

I'm a big Nylander fan. He's exciting to watch. Great play driver, smooth operator. I wouldn't ever care about his box score numbers because I know he is good at what he does. Obviously a little more tenacity would be a good thing for him but not sure if he'll ever find that part of his game.

Provide something that supports your thoughts. You're just eye test and comments. Zero evidence. Results matter.

Bang on. It doesn't even need to be a lot of tenacity, just a little more and he'd watch his whole game blossom to new heights. I think it'll come too, he's only 23, most players are just dipping their toes at this age. I know for me, the older you get the more things annoy you and that could result in him getting a little more fiery which could help him progress even further as a player.

Not sure where you are geographically, but if you ever watched Robert Thomas in the Ontario league (or if you see him in STL now), he's a pretty good stylistic match for Nylander. For the Blues, he really needs to be that guy - to drive the play up the NZ, be the entry guy on the PP, shoot when he's open and be smart with the puck. And I doubt he'll ever gain that physical/sandpaper part of the game, but it shouldn't matter as long as he can do what he is good at.

I also really believe having someone other than Babcock will go a long way in helping Nylander be as dominant as he can be. Babs is so stubborn and wants certain things from people despite their personal makeup. Nylander isn't Hyman, and never will be. So don't try to make him that. Maximize his abilities not try to change them to make them what you think a successful player will be.

I think Nylander is a good player who could be better then he’s show and if he dies reach his potential he could be on a very friendly team contract. I’ve never had an issue with squiring Nylander in Columbus other then the fact the he’s been a better wing in the NHL then he has a center and as it stands Columbus is loaded with RWs.

I really have no clue what you are trying to say here. I am sorry to say.

Basically saying Nylander is good, could be better and that I’d trade for him, but we don’t have a need for him in Columbus with the personal we have in place.

Nylander's hold out didn't really affect the team all that much though, and in the end, (looking at Matthews and Marner's contracts) Nylander was taken to town by Dubas. Does anyone actually think Marner is worth 4 million more a season than Nylander is? I certainly don't. I also think he's been better than Marner has been so far this season but he doesn't get to play on the #1 unit. Marner gives the puck away, no one really says much, Nylander gives it away and twitter blows up with Nylander Hate. Its weird.

Not what I said @LoganOllivier. This is about the fans so much more than it is about the Leafs team itself. Unless the Leafs are winning and blowing every team away, fans and the media will always find things to complain about. In this case, at this present time, there are things to complain about, but that goes with pretty much every team. I'd disagree that Nylander has been better than Marner so far this season, but that's not really my point here. Leafs' fans are bitter because the team hasn't won anything legitimate in, what is it, 52 years? Add the media to that, contracts, salary cap, and viola! Nylander may not deserve all the criticism, but he certainly deserves a share of the blame for terrible team defense, especially when he is expected to be a top line player.

Heres s valid point RE Marner VS Nylander :
@exo2769 @j2w @LoganOllivier

How many giveaways by Marner resulted directly in goals for the other team?
How many bad plays by Marner resulted in goals for the other team?

Same questions for Nylander.


I can tell you Marner is way past Nylander in this already this year.


I can tell you dont need to look up stats if you watched the games to know the answers here.

But as with everything right now, this isn't about trying to make Nylander look better than Marner. My point is why does Marner get a free pass while Nylander is still roasted for that time he held out last season. I just get annoyed with how manic the reactions are to the Leafs. And half the problem is non Leaf fans who obsess over wanting the Leafs to fail. Its all ridiculous.

Why does Marner get a pass though? I don't get why fans (many of other teams) just poor the hate towards Nylander and then give Marner a pass. Is Marner worth 4 million more than Nylander? I certainly don't think so. I think Nylander has a fair contract and Marner is very much overpaid. And yet, Marner is fine and Nylander is a greedy selfish jerk who only plays for himself. I don't get it.

Heres s valid point RE Marner VS Nylander :
@exo2769 @j2w @LoganOllivier

How many giveaways by Marner resulted directly in goals for the other team?
How many bad plays by Marner resulted in goals for the other team?

Same questions for Nylander.


I can tell you Marner is way past Nylander in this already this year.


I can tell you dont need to look up stats if you watched the games to know the answers here.

*checks passport*

I wonder?