No doubt I hope his little brother turns into half the man Seth is.

jfresh is a big dumb-dumb

top ten... as a SENS fan, I say he's top 5 and IMO the best TWD in the NHL at the moment

He's definitely good at hockey.

Jones played great vs Toronto, but his advanced stats still suck. Guess you can’t take advanced stats 100% of the time or as the only thing to judge a player on....

Me!

that is exactly my point, its the people who used advanced stats as the be all end all, he was the best player on the ice the whole series

He didn’t have a fun time with the Matthews line and a lot of stuff that hurts his metrics is hard to pick out when watching the game. For example, he really struggled with counter-attacks against (because he’s always pinching with the puck) and does not do much towards breaking up cycles/transitions. That’s why even though it may seem like he’s making no mistakes, the Blue Jackets still give up lots of shots.

Edit: I still think he’s top~20/25 but there’s so many other defenseman who do the visual things he does while actually getting great defensive results.(Mcavoy, Parayko, etc)

Feel like werenski had a bigger impact. Both played well though

Who ever said he wasn't? Advanced stats? There's a reason advances stats are a complete joke

Because you need to use advanced stats in context with the game. Some people don't understand what advanced statistics mean, and use them out of context.

not saying hes making no mistakes, but just i cant watch this guy and say "doesnt matter what im looking at, his adv stats bad" insane

hes good but overrated

advanced stats people who dont know how to properly watch so they resort to numbers, im not completely agasint it but cant stand the people who use it as the be all and all

He’s not bad, just far more average than he’s made out to be.

From a quick glance, his advanced stats actually show he's very good against high danger changes, which are shots pretty much right in front of the next. To me, that sounds like he's good at preventing chances from cycles, not necessarily ending them though.

If advanced stats actually mattered teams would value ZAR over Kucherov. I think it’s cool but people in this site go crazy over it. Lol

yes, precisely:

He’s fine defensively, but from my eye-test he just doesn’t take enough chances to really drive defensive results. He is however really good at the prototypical defensive skill set which is why he looks really good and gets strong pk results.

The problem is some advanced stats rely more on the team around them then just the player. When Jones is out with Werenski, most of the time you see Werenski in the middle of the cycle and Jones in front of the net. And when they tried to reverse to the other corner Jones would be behind the net to break it up.

As for the pinch to backup ratio, it goes into the scheme of the coach, torts plays heavy on the forcheck and a heavy back check, that give all of Columbus d the ability to pinch a little more because they know their forwards are getting back if they get beat, but they also now have the luck in the offensive zone if the pinch works.

So as you’re advanced stats see Jones isn’t much above average, the system he plays in and how he plays those stats don’t mean as much.

Advanced stats are useful but should also be taken with a grain of salt. They shouldn’t be the only thing that determines if a player is good or not. As you see some of the things you say Jones is bad at also goes into the system the coach plays.

Then why does every Columbus defenseman get better defensive results than him? Look, he’s a great defenseman but no other supposedly top-15 player needs excuses about his team’s scheme to justify his positioning. I mean Colton Parayko player with the worst defenseman in the league for 3 years and got some of the strongest defensive RAPM numbers.

Yeah. I’ve actually used that exact same site and was told that it’s “not the best tool toEvaluate a player”. You are too logical to continue this conversation. You have common sense so this example doesn’t make sense to you lol

I study data science and can tell you that advanced stats are completely worthless. Seth Jones was the most dominant player that series. 30 minutes a night, putting on a puck separation clinic. Punishing the other team’s stars. There is a reason why Kyle dubas’ advanced stats haven’t helped him when it matters.

I’m not trying to make excuses. I’m just saying they aren’t the ONLY way to judge a player. You should use everything. Advanced stats, regular stats and eye test, everything should go into it. That’s all I’m trying to say.

I agree, I just think Jones isn’t a legit top-15 guy. I always compare him to Parayko. Nobody has Parayko in their top-15 despite the fact that he does all the “eye-test” stuff that Jones does, while playing much harder minutes, and getting better results in all areas of the game.