So the Coyotes have to hit the cap floor next year

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Capobianco, Kyle	1	$750,000
Crouse, Lawson	3	$3,500,000
Fischer, Christian	2	$1,250,000
Hayton, Barrett	2	$1,000,000
Mayo, Dysin	1	$750,000
Dineen, Cam	1	$750,000
Vejmelka, Karel	2	$2,000,000
Prosvetov, Ivan	1	$750,000
Korenar, Josef	1	$750,000

UFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Boyd, Travis	2	$1,000,000
Galchenyuk, Alex	1	$850,000
Larsson, Johan	2	$1,750,000
Lyubushkin, Ilya	2	$1,500,000
O'Brien, Liam	1	$750,000
Wedgewood, Scott	1	$850,000
Jaskin, Dmitrij	1	$3,200,000
Nash, Riley	1	$750,000

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$66,881,667	$0	$0	$14,618,333

Left Wing	Center	Right Wing
Keller, Clayton $7,150,000 RW, LW UFA - 6	Boyd, Travis $1,000,000 C, RW UFA - 2	Schmaltz, Nick $5,850,000 C, RW UFA - 4
Crouse, Lawson $3,500,000 LW UFA - 5	Johnson, Tyler $5,000,000 RW, C NTC UFA - 2	Jaskin, Dmitrij $3,200,000 RW, LW UFA
Hayton, Barrett $1,000,000 C, LW RFA	Larsson, Johan $1,750,000 C, LW UFA	Fischer, Christian $1,250,000 RW, LW RFA - 1
Ladd, Andrew $5,500,000 LW NTC UFA - 1	Nash, Riley $750,000 C, RW UFA	Galchenyuk, Alex $850,000 LW, C, RW UFA

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Gostisbehere, Shayne $4,500,000 LD UFA - 1	Timmins, Conor $850,000 RD RFA - 1	Vejmelka, Karel $2,000,000 G UFA - 3
Chychrun, Jakob $4,600,000 LD/RD UFA - 3	Lyubushkin, Ilya $1,500,000 RD UFA - 2	Wedgewood, Scott $850,000 G UFA - 2
Capobianco, Kyle $750,000 LD RFA - 2	Mayo, Dysin $750,000 RD UFA - 3

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
O'Brien, Liam $750,000 LW, C UFA - 2	Seabrook, Brent $6,875,000 RD NTC UFA - 2
Dineen, Cam $750,000 LD RFA - 1	Bishop, Ben $4,916,667 G NMC NTC UFA - 1

Jan. 9 at 5:26 p.m.

#1

Jinx god

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The number of money on Bishop’s contract goes against Dallas’s cap space = 0

The number of things we’ll give you to take Bishop = Blake Comeau if we feel nice, not giving a 2nd for nothing.

Jan. 9 at 5:27 p.m.

#2

Boltsbeathabs

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Easy pass by TB absolutely horrific trade for them Seabrook costs nothing and they certainly aren't giving up those assets to help AZ get to the floor. Well give you Seabrook for a 1 easily as foolish as your trade proposal

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Jan. 9 at 5:30 p.m.

#3

brw5000

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Hawks say no, they don't need to trade Johnson and if they did they wouldn't give up more draft picks than they received to get him.

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Jan. 9 at 5:31 p.m.

#4

mk458

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Tampa has no reason to do that

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Jan. 9 at 5:31 p.m.

#5

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Quoting: EsoYeezus69

The number of money on Bishop’s contract goes against Dallas’s cap space = 0

The number of things we’ll give you to take Bishop = Blake Comeau if we feel nice, not giving a 2nd for nothing.

Depends on how pressured the Stars are to get under the cap. They're already $3M over the cap right now as is; I suppose, if they let Pavelski, Radulov, and Klingberg walk in free agency, then there's no incentive to move Bishop's contract.

But, if you took any sort of look at the Coyotes' trade history from last summer, there are at least a few GMs that had to make desperation trades and pay the Coyotes to take on bad contracts. So it's not as if Nill wouldn't consider it, because Bishop's playing career is done, and that's almost $5M just sitting on LTIR (which is not, ideally, what they want). The Stars are also trying to compete for a Cup, which means that they need as much cap room as they can get their hands on.

Jan. 9 at 5:33 p.m.

#6

bagelbob

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if they're taking on an LTIR deal it'd be like what the sabres did with johnny boychuk this year, find a contract without a ton of actual money to pay but with a higher cap hit and acquire them for future considerations, and just keep them on IR.

Jan. 9 at 5:36 p.m.

#7

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Again, to re-iterate, look at the Coyotes' trade history from this past summer. It's not as if any of these trades don't have precedents; how else would the Coyotes have gotten Andrew Ladd, Shayne Gostisbehere, Loui Eriksson, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel, and Anton Strålman? In a flat-cap world, cap space is king. You may think it's foolish to simply trade contracts for nothing, but recent history speaks differently, and there's always a reason for it.

Jan. 9 at 5:38 p.m.

#8

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Quoting: bagelbob

if they're taking on an LTIR deal it'd be like what the sabres did with johnny boychuk this year, find a contract without a ton of actual money to pay but with a higher cap hit and acquire them for future considerations, and just keep them on IR.

There aren't that many contracts like that floating around in the NHL anymore that have a stupendous difference between cap hit and actual salary payout (outside of, like, Shea Weber's). And, if you take a look, Seabrook and Bishop's contracts do, indeed, fit the bill as either front-loaded or with a decent difference between cap hit and actual salary.

Jan. 9 at 5:39 p.m.

#9

Aussie_Blackhawk

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CHI doesn't need to move the contract, we don't need to pay above a 2nd to move it after only a year removed from receiving the same price. We are a bottom 6 team and will gain more space come seasons end already.

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Jan. 9 at 5:41 p.m.

#10

bagelbob

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

Again, to re-iterate, look at the Coyotes' trade history from this past summer. It's not as if any of these trades don't have precedents; how else would the Coyotes have gotten Andrew Ladd, Shayne Gostisbehere, Loui Eriksson, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel, and Anton Strålman? In a flat-cap world, cap space is king. You may think it's foolish to simply trade contracts for nothing, but recent history speaks differently, and there's always a reason for it.

ladd, eriksson, ghost, beagle etc. are not injured and could not be put on LTIR. seabrook and bishop are both retired and on LTIR, and while on LTIR you can exceed the cap by exactly that amount, so functionally they don't count toward the cap. why would tampa give up a first round pick for literally nothing, just to get off LTIR? it doesn't add any additional cap space for them and they lose an asset. tyler johnson yes but the stars and the bolts would be fools to make this trade, it's closer to the boychuk situation than anything with the guys the yotes traded for last year

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Jan. 9 at 5:43 p.m.

#11

bagelbob

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

There aren't that many contracts like that floating around in the NHL anymore that have a stupendous difference between cap hit and actual salary payout (outside of, like, Shea Weber's). And, if you take a look, Seabrook and Bishop's contracts do, indeed, fit the bill as either front-loaded or with a decent difference between cap hit and actual salary.

yeah, so pick up bishop for future considerations, dallas is doing you a favor by helping the yotes get to the cap floor. why would they pay for that?

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Jan. 9 at 5:44 p.m.

#12

EsoYeezus69

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

Depends on how pressured the Stars are to get under the cap. They're already $3M over the cap right now as is; I suppose, if they let Pavelski, Radulov, and Klingberg walk in free agency, then there's no incentive to move Bishop's contract.

But, if you took any sort of look at the Coyotes' trade history from last summer, there are at least a few GMs that had to make desperation trades and pay the Coyotes to take on bad contracts. So it's not as if Nill wouldn't consider it, because Bishop's playing career is done, and that's almost $5M just sitting on LTIR (which is not, ideally, what they want). The Stars are also trying to compete for a Cup, which means that they need as much cap room as they can get their hands on.

I’ve bolded the main things I’ll go over.

1. Klingberg has asked to be traded therefore chances are that he’ll probably not be on the teams roster next year, Nill’s acts of stupidity has shown off and Klingberg was the first to speak out. He’s tired of this joke of a franchise (tbh I don’t blame him). So if he’s out it’s a blow to our d core or more or less our team, which lowers our chances of competing for the cup.

2. Depending on the teams success this year really changes your points, because if we aren’t in a position to win this year, chances are Pavs, Rads and other upcoming free agents will be sold because they don’t bring any value to our team in a long term stand point. If they don’t get moved Nill should certainly get the can (he already should’ve gotten it a long time ago), and if he doesn’t then my other comment gets discarded because I won’t care for this joke of a franchise any longer.

3. After we most likely flop to make the playoffs Nill/Bones should both get fired and then a new GM and Coach get the duties to guide this team through a re-tool. During when our cap situation will most likely be loose and picks will be one of the most valuable assets. Bishop’s cap is only for next year, a year which we shouldn’t be competing.

4. In the scenario we somehow make the playoffs and we keep our upcoming free agents, if Bishop was to be traded it’d probably be in a package to a team like Arizona looking to get to the cap floor, but instead of a dumping of contract it’d be for an asset, which would help a cup run.

Jan. 9 at 5:45 p.m.

#13

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Quoting: Aussie_Blackhawk

CHI doesn't need to move the contract, we don't need to pay above a 2nd to move it after only a year removed from receiving the same price. We are a bottom 6 team and will gain more space come seasons end already.

Well, let's take a look at the math.
The Blackhawks right now: $86.5M
Out: $7M (Fleury), $4.5M (de Haan), $3.9M (Shaw) -> $71.1M
In: $4.1M (Jones' extension), $0.5M (Murphy's extension) -> $75.7M
I did admittedly forget about Andrew Shaw's contract coming off of the books in my original calculus, so this gives them $5.8M in cap space to navigate extensions to Kubalík, Strome, Dach, and some variety of starting goaltender. I guess that is doable without necessarily having to trade Johnson.

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Jan. 9 at 5:45 p.m.

#14

Boltsbeathabs

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If AZ needs to get to the floor TB will trade Seabrook for a 7

Jan. 9 at 5:48 p.m.

#15

Ledge_And_Dairy

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Quoting: EsoYeezus69

The number of money on Bishop’s contract goes against Dallas’s cap space = 0

The number of things we’ll give you to take Bishop = Blake Comeau if we feel nice, not giving a 2nd for nothing.

The idea here is you cant accrue cap space while you are over the cap. Even if you are only over because of LTIR relief

Jan. 9 at 5:50 p.m.

#16

EsoYeezus69

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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

The idea here is you cant accrue cap space while you are over the cap. Even if you are only over because of LTIR relief

Yeah I understood that reasoning. I also explained a little bit of what Dallas’s POV is in my last comment (little bit long).

Jan. 9 at 5:50 p.m.

#17

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Quoting: bagelbob

ladd, eriksson, ghost, beagle etc. are not injured and could not be put on LTIR. seabrook and bishop are both retired and on LTIR, and while on LTIR you can exceed the cap by exactly that amount, so functionally they don't count toward the cap. why would tampa give up a first round pick for literally nothing, just to get off LTIR? it doesn't add any additional cap space for them and they lose an asset. tyler johnson yes but the stars and the bolts would be fools to make this trade, it's closer to the boychuk situation than anything with the guys the yotes traded for last year

As long as you're using LTIR to go over the cap, you're not technically accruing cap space. It limits your ability to do things like add players at the trade deadline for a playoff stretch run. Having players on LTIR is manageable, but it's not ideal, and most teams would like to have that flexibility if they can get it. I'm pretty sure, for example, that the Lightning would much rather not have Brent Seabrook on their roster if they didn't have to.

Nobody would have predicted the Coyotes doing what they did with the trades they made before the trades happened, but now we know that GMs can get pretty desperate. I wouldn't say these are the smartest moves that a GM could make, but these are very reminiscent of moves that GMs have made in the recent past.

Jan. 9 at 5:52 p.m.

#18

Ledge_And_Dairy

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Plenty of teams will be trying to move cap this summer. Lucic after his bonus is paid comes to mind, Colorado may try to move EJ, Toronto has to do something, Florida my try and move Hornqvist

Jan. 9 at 5:53 p.m.

#19

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Quoting: EsoYeezus69

I’ve bolded the main things I’ll go over.

1. Klingberg has asked to be traded therefore chances are that he’ll probably not be on the teams roster next year, Nill’s acts of stupidity has shown off and Klingberg was the first to speak out. He’s tired of this joke of a franchise (tbh I don’t blame him). So if he’s out it’s a blow to our d core or more or less our team, which lowers our chances of competing for the cup.

2. Depending on the teams success this year really changes your points, because if we aren’t in a position to win this year, chances are Pavs, Rads and other upcoming free agents will be sold because they don’t bring any value to our team in a long term stand point. If they don’t get moved Nill should certainly get the can (he already should’ve gotten it a long time ago), and if he doesn’t then my other comment gets discarded because I won’t care for this joke of a franchise any longer.

3. After we most likely flop to make the playoffs Nill/Bones should both get fired and then a new GM and Coach get the duties to guide this team through a re-tool. During when our cap situation will most likely be loose and picks will be one of the most valuable assets. Bishop’s cap is only for next year, a year which we shouldn’t be competing.

4. In the scenario we somehow make the playoffs and we keep our upcoming free agents, if Bishop was to be traded it’d probably be in a package to a team like Arizona looking to get to the cap floor, but instead of a dumping of contract it’d be for an asset, which would help a cup run.

If the Stars do end up moving towards selling assets, this all makes a lot of sense. The main idea was really "who are the Coyotes going to be targeting in order to gain assets?", and those teams are, often, ones trying to push for a Cup, but if the Stars aren't exactly moving in that direction, then, yeah, there would be less incentive to need to trade Bishop.

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Jan. 9 at 5:56 p.m.

#20

EsoYeezus69

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

If the Stars do end up moving towards selling assets, this all makes a lot of sense. The main idea was really "who are the Coyotes going to be targeting in order to gain assets?", and those teams are, often, ones trying to push for a Cup, but if the Stars aren't exactly moving in that direction, then, yeah, there would be less incentive to need to trade Bishop.

Exactly. I’m probably one of those fans who really wants them to compete, but realistically it isn’t looking too bright.

I see them re-tooling with an actual competent management team, and maybe then competing.

Jan. 9 at 5:57 p.m.

#21

bagelbob

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

As long as you're using LTIR to go over the cap, you're not technically accruing cap space. It limits your ability to do things like add players at the trade deadline for a playoff stretch run. Having players on LTIR is manageable, but it's not ideal, and most teams would like to have that flexibility if they can get it. I'm pretty sure, for example, that the Lightning would much rather not have Brent Seabrook on their roster if they didn't have to.

Nobody would have predicted the Coyotes doing what they did with the trades they made before the trades happened, but now we know that GMs can get pretty desperate. I wouldn't say these are the smartest moves that a GM could make, but these are very reminiscent of moves that GMs have made in the recent past.

yeah, but the precedent for those moves is the buffalo trade for johnny boychuk this year after the eichel deal. in order to get over the cap floor, they acquired boychuk (who was LTIRetired and had one year left) from the islanders for future considerations. accruing cap space is helpful and all that but not helpful enough to give up assets for it. the type of guys you should be going for to pick up assets would be like nick ritchie, lucic, monahan, somebody from the panthers, tyler johnson is a good one, etc.

Jan. 9 at 6:04 p.m.

#22

DragonRaptorHybrid

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Quoting: bagelbob

yeah, but the precedent for those moves is the buffalo trade for johnny boychuk this year after the eichel deal. in order to get over the cap floor, they acquired boychuk (who was LTIRetired and had one year left) from the islanders for future considerations. accruing cap space is helpful and all that but not helpful enough to give up assets for it. the type of guys you should be going for to pick up assets would be like nick ritchie, lucic, monahan, somebody from the panthers, tyler johnson is a good one, etc.

I think it's low-key pretty important to have the ability to accrue cap space. Tampa's already in a really bad position. They're sitting at $89M in cap hit right now; while letting Pálat walk would free up $5.3M, Point's cap hit is going up by $2.75M for his extension, and there are no other big-ticket contracts coming off the roster. If Seabrook's $6.875M contract is gone, that puts them at $79.6M, which means now they have actual breathing room instead of faux-breathing room that just pushes the problem later down the line.

Also, sure, the Boychuk trade was the original precedent, but Bill Armstrong's clearly shown that he can extract additional assets to make GMs pay to get cap space.

Jan. 9 at 6:28 p.m.

#23

bagelbob

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

I think it's low-key pretty important to have the ability to accrue cap space. Tampa's already in a really bad position. They're sitting at $89M in cap hit right now; while letting Pálat walk would free up $5.3M, Point's cap hit is going up by $2.75M for his extension, and there are no other big-ticket contracts coming off the roster. If Seabrook's $6.875M contract is gone, that puts them at $79.6M, which means now they have actual breathing room instead of faux-breathing room that just pushes the problem later down the line.

Also, sure, the Boychuk trade was the original precedent, but Bill Armstrong's clearly shown that he can extract additional assets to make GMs pay to get cap space.

but how do you go from future considerations to first and second round picks? armstrong's been good at collecting assets but no GM would bite on this. tampa doesn't need that breathing room, they're adept at managing the cap with LTIR and have never had issues on that front. if you wanted to take seabrook for free to get yourselves over the cap floor i could see that happening like with boychuk but a first round pick+ is crazy.

Jan. 9 at 6:54 p.m.

#24

audiodave

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

Depends on how pressured the Stars are to get under the cap. They're already $3M over the cap right now as is; I suppose, if they let Pavelski, Radulov, and Klingberg walk in free agency, then there's no incentive to move Bishop's contract.

But, if you took any sort of look at the Coyotes' trade history from last summer, there are at least a few GMs that had to make desperation trades and pay the Coyotes to take on bad contracts. So it's not as if Nill wouldn't consider it, because Bishop's playing career is done, and that's almost $5M just sitting on LTIR (which is not, ideally, what they want). The Stars are also trying to compete for a Cup, which means that they need as much cap room as they can get their hands on.

There's a difference between bad contracts and players who are on LTIR. It doesn't make sense for a team to give up assets for players who will spend the rest of the contracts on LTIR. Why would Tampa give up a 1st round pick for nothing in return? There are plenty of other bad contracts out there that Arizona could take on to get draft picks and help them reach the cap floor.

Jan. 9 at 7:22 p.m.

#25

Aussie_Blackhawk

Joined: Oct. 2019

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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid

Well, let's take a look at the math.
The Blackhawks right now: $86.5M
Out: $7M (Fleury), $4.5M (de Haan), $3.9M (Shaw) -> $71.1M
In: $4.1M (Jones' extension), $0.5M (Murphy's extension) -> $75.7M
I did admittedly forget about Andrew Shaw's contract coming off of the books in my original calculus, so this gives them $5.8M in cap space to navigate extensions to Kubalík, Strome, Dach, and some variety of starting goaltender. I guess that is doable without necessarily having to trade Johnson.

Also factor in, Strome is unlikely to be on CHI roster and Connolly would be a much cheaper sell then TJ at this point in time. We are also holding .75m of Maata's deal which also comes off the books.

Kubalik could also get traded at the TDL or if he is re-signed its unlikely to be in the region I thought it would have been at the start of this season.

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