Well manson is about 80x better, so by my calculations that means chariot should net the habs a negative 2nd rounder

im not a big chairot guy but manson is not really that much better than him

i dont agree with that. manson is the better D man but not by as much as you are saying. Chiarot is still good. and hes having a down season. give the guy a break. hes nowhere near as bad as holl is in his own zone. id still love to have him

im not saying that either. i just said that manson is better, just a little, but he shoots right and theres a lot more value in a Right shot D man than a left shot that plays the right
id be shocked if Chiarot got more than a second plus a B prospect to be honest

Delusional, Chiarot brings way more to a team then Manson does, Even if Manson is the more skilled guy. Come playoffs you'd rather be playing with Chiarot then against him.

Nah, manson is literally leaps and bounds better, he can move the puck and has the mobility to keep players outside the rush and even stop a cycle.
I dont think very much of manson, but he's out of chariots league.
Chariot is literally worse than replacement level in most of his defensive stats

the manson trade sets a pretty good precedent imo, if someone was actually interested in offering the habs a first and third for chairot he wouldve been moved weeks ago

In what world is Manson > than Chiarot?? U mean 4 years ago?? Ya, 4 years ago Manson had value. Now he doesn’t. He’s had 3 sub-par years.

Let alone Chiarot’s Defensive analytics and underlying numbers are superior—any year.

If i was forces to play in the nhl in my current shape and for a million bucks i had to get past any defender on a zone entry, ben chariot would be a top 3 pick

I stand by my Delusional comment

I kinda like it. Not a fan of Chiarot but the value is probably fair for a rental bottom-4 D.

I agree with both your analysis and your trade construction.

@JaredOfLondon was exaggerating for effect. He doesn't really think Manson was Hedman-times better than Chiarot, just clearly superior.

Yes, habs fans are. Im convinced none of you here championing chariot have ever done anything more than check out his ice time in the box score. He's awful

Yeah, manson is only really like 7 or 8 times better

Manson -- WAR 28.2, EV offense 60.7, EV defense 48.3, Penalty Kill 28.2
Chiarot -- WAR 15.0, EV offense 56.0, EV defense 4.7, Penalty Kill 5.0

From Upside Down Hockey

You're right, him playing 90% of his TOI against Matthews and Marner last playoffs really gave them the upper hand to score a combined 1 time in 7 games...

If you're going to tell me a player is ineffective at least choose someone that didn't embarrass you once already.

Yeah he got caved in too. If price wasnt in hod mode and matthews wrist was at more than 10% he'd have had a front row to a sweep.
He's awful

And now I’m going to quote a guy with whom I have frequent vigorous discussions:

"Funny, I was thinking the opposite. Manson is a better defender than Chiarot. Colorado has a very strong analytics department so they would have known that, of course.

5v5 On-ice Rels, this season
Chariot vs Manson
-2.66 CF% Rel +4.25
-3.65 GF% Rel +6.03
-5.15 xGF% Rel +0.72
-2.14 SCF% Rel +2.90
-6.54 HDCF% Rel +5.00
39.74 Off. Zone Start % 39.42

Manson’s shot-, goal-, scoring chance- and expected goal-suppression is far superior as he actually does good work in these areas, while Chiarot allows more of each than his teammates do. Chiarot has no advantage anywhere, not even in the scoring department:

0.31 Goals/60 0.32
0.68 Total Points/60 0.64
0.56 Primary Points/60 0.56
4.5 Shots/60 4.53
0.16 ixG/60 0.26
2.78 iSCF/60 3.26
0.43 iHDCF/60 1.11

Similar style, similar usage, but only one of these guys is effective at his job."

You can find further discussion on this point in https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/566100

You might find it enlightening.

one whould think chiarot personally hurt you or something

nah, i just watched all the games and read all the stats so I know what im looking at

just letting you know how you come across!

yes, im aware how habs fans who think Chariot is good despite all evidence view me, they tell me all the time. Angry lot of kids , that.

And all you do is count on whatever a Jfresh card tells you.

nah, i watch the games, unlike you who clearly just watch the ice time in the box scored

If MTL gets better value than Manson, does that means GMs sees him better than Manson ?