The trade was White for a 2nd??

LMAO, Marner is not going anywhere, regardless of the Leafs' playoff success, not to mention a division rival.

Then why weren’t they anywhere close?

Leafs obviously reject

Colin white is negative value.

Who do you think is dropping out for the Sens to make the playoffs? In the Atlantic, they'd need to be a 110 point team this season and the best teams aren't getting much worse next year. There's an open wild card spot I guess but Buffalo has been a better team than Ottawa...and even then I'd probably take the Islanders for the spot.

chris johnsotn said 1 of the leafs core 4 will 100% be gone if they lose again. tavares has NMC and they're not trading Matthews. down to marner who doesn't score playoff goals and nylander

MTL isn't giving a 2nd for white especially if they aren't taking a contract back.

No it wasn’t for a second, maybe Armia going back the other way one for one

That’s what I thought, White moving in a hockey trade of some sort. Didn’t see anything about a 2nd coming to Ottawa.

It's probably Nylander. He's a luxury for the Leafs. Not a necessity. Marner has struggled in the playoffs. But he's a key reason why the Leafs make the playoffs each season.

Giroux at 4M is a pipe dream. Pavelski a few years ago at a similar point in his career got 3 x 6 under a better tax situation. We'll assume Giroux is willing to give the Senators a bit of wiggle room, because he wants to end his career in his hometown. So he signs for the same 3 x 6M that Pavelski did despite Ottawa being much worse tax wise.

I think your other contracts are pretty close, except I am not sure Dorion (if he is still GM) will go 4 years with Joseph. He doesn't usually go that long with second tier players, and when he does, it usually ends up being a mini-albatross for the budget Senators. Assuming they are no longer a budget team due to new owners, I guess it would be possible.

_________________________

Josh Norris is a weird case. His shooting percentage is very high, but it also isn't all that much higher than last season (22 percent vs 17 percent). The difference, he is shooting more, A LOT more. I don't know what to make of that in terms of sustainability. I think they will bridge Norris, and hope that if he proves himself to be a 40-50 goal scorer, by the time the bridge comes up, they will be contenders under the best friend of Norris, Brady Tkachuk. If they bridge Norris at 3 years 6 million, in 2025 is he turning down the opportunity to play on a possible playoff team led by his best friend with a big third contract at 8 years 8 million? Since they got Tkachuk locked down, I think they gamble that he will want to stay after being bridged.

The interesting dynamic is that they can sign Stutzle this off season. This creates a lot of strategy about how they handle both players. In terms of notoriety, Stutzle is the more important player. He was taken third overall in a very top heavy draft. He isn't producing like Norris, but he also is playing in the NHL at a much younger age. Josh Norris was still in College in his +2 season, and didn't make the NHL full time until his +4 season. Will Norris and his notoriously difficult agent see it that way? Probably not. At the same time, if the Senators give Norris 8, Stutzle may want more.

The dynamic with Stutzle is almost exactly the same as the one with Jack Hughes when he signed his 8x8 extension 1 year early. Some people criticized the extension as being too much for a player who'd yet to produce at a top line level, but it has paid off for the Devils. if they waited until now, Hughes would cost a lot more than 8 million on an 8 year extension. Once Stutzle is done, if Norris will sign a similar deal (8x8, no signing bonus, 10 team no trade list), get it done. Judging by his agent's past work, he won't sign that contract after an inferior producing Stutzle got 8x8. They will do a 3 year bridge deal with a relatively high QO.

_________________________

Montreal is not giving us a 2nd for Colin White. He has negative value. They are also in a position of strength, because White's former agent is their GM. I don't want to use the t word, but they have to have a reasonable idea that if he is bought out they can convince him to sign in Montreal. Ottawa will have a lot of incentive to buyout White, because it will be the last season where he can be bought out at the 1/3rd ratio. I would imagine that the botched trade at the deadline was based around swapping White for one of Montreal's questionable contracts in a change of scenery move. Maybe Drouin? Is it possible that Tampa putting Joseph on the table for Paul might have kiboshed the trade? If Ottawa was going after a roster player from Montreal, they would come with a cap hit. While Joseph is cheap this season, he will cost a few million next season on an extension. So if it was Drouin, Armia, or Hoffman on the table, Dorion may have decided that he liked the prospect of buying out White and using that 22-23 onward cap on Joseph+White's buyout better.

_________________________

Gustavsson has no value. He has not shown he can stick in the NHL. He also will no longer be waiver exempt. Which means, if a team acquires him, they risk losing him at the start of the season when he inevitably does not make their team. That would be a really bad move to give up a major asset for him. Oh wait, it's Edmonton, so maybe it is realistic? In all seriousness, he is maybe worth a late round pick. If the Senators are really pushy and get really lucky, maybe they get some condition aspects based on Gustavsson playing in the NHL. Unfortunately, they protected the wrong goalie in expansion. Dorion should have gone with his gut and protected Daccord, who is going to go on to be a star in the NHL within the next few years. Maybe, as soon as next year.
_________________________
Your Zaitsev proposal is fair, but I don't think the Senators need to do that. If they have new ownership, add Claude Giroux, and hand out big extensions to all the key players, they will still be below the cap. But I get your Zaitsev proposal is tied to your Marner one.

_________________________

Most of what you proposed about is pretty realistic, even if I don't agree with certain aspects or values, but that Marner proposal is just wacky. Marner is a mark for the Maple Leafs, so he is never going to ask for a trade. Marner asking for a trade, and thus forcing the Leafs hand is the only scenario I can see where he is traded for a 3rd overall pick in a ho-hum draft. If Marner was willingly shopped by Toronto, without him wanting out, the ask and the return would both be huge.

“The ultimate secret of success is this: If you tidy up in one shot, rather than little by little, you can dramatically change your mind-set.”

— Marie Kondo.

Then it’s obviously Nylander. Or they trade Marner for a king’s ransom not a 1st and an underachieving prospect. Any team in the league would put up that and more and I’m not even a Leaf fan.

"The leafs do something really dumb because they lose in the 1st round" is something that just wont die eh?

He said he THINKS that. He's thought lots of things that never happened

How is nylander a luxury? Having two 1st line wingers is a luxury now?

Reading your past posts, it's clear you're an attention seeking troublemaker. Figure it out. Ignore list you go. I'm not being baited into a suspension. Cheers.

Or you could actually try and back up your point with a debate of some form. But that would mean youd have to be able to defend it, eh?

London's local basement dweller. Nothing worse than someone that just antagonizes with sarcasm and isn't forthright. That's simply reality tv wives drama content

Agreed.

Not sure luxury is the best word to use. I would say it's definitely a benefit to have 2 top end RW but moving one just because you have one doesn't really make any sense. Every team in the league wants that kind of depth and once you have it you keep it at all cost. I think next off season all depends on how the playoffs go. And what I mean by that is, if they lose poorly then I think a big move may happen. But if Matthews, Campbell, Marner and Rielly all get hurt in the opening round and they lose to a good team, well thats just bad luck and making brash move at that point is not needed.

I would 100% do this for Marner (he'd have to **** the bed even more than last playoffs to become available)

He's the kind of elite talent that I would give a lottery pick for. However with the season he's having, he has shown he is worth more than that, even with the big salary. Brannstrom is nice but this package needs at least another 1st round pick, or just give them back Connor Brown

Mitch Marner for Connor Brown, Ottawa 1st in 2022, Erik Brannstrom. Could even add Filip Gustavsson

Tkachuk - Norris - Marner
Giroux - Stutzle - Batherson
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Crookshank - Greig - White
Kelly - Kastelic - Watson


That top-9 is insane and that forward group has depth to cover for injuries




Well, there was legit rumors for a hockey trade between the 2 teams regarding Colin White, but I don't really understand why Montreal is after him

They traded for a similar player last off-season except that Dvorak is pretty good on face-offs. White is a better possession player though

I think it has to do with Kent Hughes?



I wouldn't do White for Armia for sure.

Both have same term, White makes 1.35 AAV more but is also the better player, more productive, can play center too

Even if Montreal adds a 2nd, I'd be hesitant. I think I'd rather just buy out Colin White for CHEAP.