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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #8 - Gone Fishing

Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:27 p.m.
#451
What in tarnation
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Quoting: DucharmetheDOMinator
Eddy > Mike
But anyway,
Guhle is gonna be better or at least same level as MM next year, Harris will improve
He has no spot
I'd be much more happy for A deal with Dumolin there
1 year left
Why do we need MM? We ate not contending. Rather trade Petry for futures, or just keep him and sign CDH
As honestly, it's feeling like Klingberg to MTL is inevitable
If not, it's Subban, which is equally as bad
Wtf


In what way is Edmundson better than Matheson? Like, I wouldn't call Matheson an offensive guy but his numbers are still way better than Edmundson (granted he was fighting with injuries). There's not much difference between these two but based on last year I'd give the edge to MM.

Once again you overrate your prospects. Saying that Guhle's your top D-man without playing a single game against pros is also naïve.

According to Hughes the bare minimum he wanted from Pens was Matheson and he was willing to add Poehling for him so he definitely thinks Matheson has a role there, and that is most likely the first pair one for years to come as he specifically wanted him.

And Klingberg to MTL is inevitable? In what reality are you living?

Seems like the only reality you're living is known as "Montreality"
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:29 p.m.
#452
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Quoting: DucharmetheDOMinator
Severson for Pulijujarvi trade seems likely, no?
Then maybe a Barrie for Hoffman trade ?
Makes sense for all teams involved


No it doesn't. Pulju's value is low, Severson's value is high.

Hoffman is terrible, Barrie is serviceable.

Makes sense for MTL only.
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:29 p.m.
#453
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Tampa Bay Lightning:

Strengths: Star firepower, balanced offensive depth, goaltending, net-front presence, penalty kill, head coach

Weaknesses: Mediocre prospect pool, defensive depth, 2nd PP unit, cap situation
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:30 p.m.
#454
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NYI

Weaknesses: skating (mainly forwards) , no elite winger , play driving

Strengths : RD , center core , goaltending
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:31 p.m.
#455
What in tarnation
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
What is each teams biggest weakness/weaknesses, and there most rich area. Example below.

Buffalo
Weaknesses: True #1 Center, RD Depth, Defensive Prospect depth. (In that order.)
Strengths: Prospect Pool, Cap Situation.


Dallas

Strengths - deep center prospect pool, overall balance around the lineup, roles

Weaknesses - RHD depth, too reliant on Heiskanen right now, lack of cap space, potentially lack of scoring but I'd hesitate on this argument as we don't know how the coaching change and Marchment change these
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:31 p.m.
#456
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Quoting: DucharmetheDOMinator
Severson for Pulijujarvi trade seems likely, no?
Then maybe a Barrie for Hoffman trade ?
Makes sense for all teams involved


What about Petry for McDavid?
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:32 p.m.
#457
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Quoting: justaBoss
Dallas

Strengths - deep center prospect pool, overall balance around the lineup, roles

Weaknesses - RHD depth, too reliant on Heiskanen right now, lack of cap space, potentially lack of scoring but I'd hesitate on this argument as we don't know how the coaching change and Marchment change these


I never mentioned how freaking brilliant the Marchment signing was IMO for the Stars. An absolute A+ deal-not too much term, not too much AAV, and they get a seriously needed upgrade in offensive depth. One of the best player-to-team fits so far.
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:34 p.m.
#458
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Quoting: Devil
What about Petry for McDavid?


Make it McDavid and a 1st, and it's a deal.
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:34 p.m.
#459
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
I never mentioned how freaking brilliant the Marchment signing was IMO for the Stars. An absolute A+ deal-not too much term, not too much AAV, and they get a seriously needed upgrade in offensive depth. One of the best player-to-team fits so far.


I disagree a bit, that was a hefty cost to pay for a guy with one good season at the hugely stacked team of Florida. That deal is potentially great, but there's major risks involved. If he can't keep to the level he was in FLA that deal is going to look UGLY in a short while.
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:35 p.m.
#460
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Quoting: Devil
What about Petry for McDavid?


Pittsburgh doesn't have enough Cap space wink
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:36 p.m.
#461
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Quoting: justaBoss
I disagree a bit, that was a hefty cost to pay for a guy with one good season at the hugely stacked team of Florida. That deal is potentially great, but there's major risks involved. If he can't keep to the level he was in FLA that deal is going to look UGLY in a short while.


I hate the Panthers, but I loved Marchment. Yes he was definitely well insulated, but he combines the grit of a 4th liner with the skill and agility of a 2nd liner. I think he's just what the doctor ordered for the Stars, but ultimately time will tell.
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:37 p.m.
#462
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Quoting: justaBoss
I'd cut Elvis some slack. Kivi who was like a brother to him died to save his life, it definitely impacted his play, and most likely the whole team.

They were so off defensively last year, I'd imagine there's going to be a change to that this year.

CBJ is going to surprise many people I'd wager.

Yeah Elvis had a rough year, but I don’t think he’s top 10 even at his peak (Vasi, Shesterkin, Otter, Markstrom, Helle, Demko, Saros, Andersen, Kuemper, Jarry, Sorokin, Lehner, Swayman, Ullmark are all really solid goalies, and I don’t see Elvis outperforming more than a couple of them at best). And even though he did better than expected, CBJ was so atrocious defensively last year (only one forward and one defenseman were above league average in their own zone lol) that they basically hang him out to dry, and if that’s how Larsen coaches I’m not confident their systems will be good enough to compete with the other powerhouses of the East. They’ll have their chance in a couple years though, when teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, and Boston will likely have fallen off.
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:38 p.m.
#463
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Quoting: Alfie11
Yeah Elvis had a rough year, but I don’t think he’s top 10 even at his peak (Vasi, Shesterkin, Otter, Markstrom, Helle, Demko, Saros, Andersen, Kuemper, Jarry, Sorokin, Lehner, Swayman, Ullmark are all really solid goalies, and I don’t see Elvis outperforming more than a couple of them at best). And even though he did better than expected, CBJ was so atrocious defensively last year (only one forward and one defenseman were above league average in their own zone lol) that they basically hang him out to dry, and if that’s how Larsen coaches I’m not confident their systems will be good enough to compete with the other powerhouses of the East. They’ll have their chance in a couple years though, when teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, and Boston will likely have fallen off.


It's make it or break it year for Larsen. If he can't get that team to defend better he's getting sacked.

That team is, starting from the head coach, quite inexperienced.
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:40 p.m.
#464
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Quoting: justaBoss
It's make it or break it year for Larsen. If he can't get that team to defend better he's getting sacked.

That team is, starting from the head coach, quite inexperienced.


No need to worry, Erik Gubdranson is coming to the rescue

(Still can't believe he got 4 X 4 million, just insane)
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Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:46 p.m.
#465
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
What is each teams biggest weakness/weaknesses, and there most rich area. Example below.

Buffalo
Weaknesses: True #1 Center, RD Depth, Defensive Prospect depth. (In that order.)
Strengths: Prospect Pool, Cap Situation.


Vancouver

Strengths: Elite top 9
Höglander-Pettersson-Boeser
Mikheyev-Miller-Garland
Podkolzin-Horvat-Kuzmenko

Good LHD group: Hughes, OEL, Rathbone, Dermott

Franchise goalie: Demko


Weaknesses:
Top 4RHD.

Tbh, Canucks are 2 top 4 RHD away from being a contender
Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:58 p.m.
#466
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
No need to worry, Erik Gubdranson is coming to the rescue

(Still can't believe he got 4 X 4 million, just insane)


I feel a buyout happens in the second year of the deal
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:00 a.m.
#467
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Quoting: Juiceman
Vancouver

Strengths: Elite top 9
Höglander-Pettersson-Boeser
Mikheyev-Miller-Garland
Podkolzin-Horvat-Kuzmenko

Good LHD group: Hughes, OEL, Rathbone, Dermott

Franchise goalie: Demko


Weaknesses:
Top 4RHD.

Tbh, Canucks are 2 top 4 RHD away from being a contender


Have to disagree with you a bit. That's a very good top 9, but I wouldn't call it "elite"-Hoglander and Podkolzin are unproven, and we don't know how good Kuzmenko will be yet. Also, far from being good, that LHD group is well below average : Hughes is terrific, but OEL is terrible, Rathbone and Dermott are both mediocre at best. Agreed on Demko.
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:06 a.m.
#468
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Have to disagree with you a bit. That's a very good top 9, but I wouldn't call it "elite"-Hoglander and Podkolzin are unproven, and we don't know how good Kuzmenko will be yet. Also, far from being good, that LHD group is well below average : Hughes is terrific, but OEL is terrible, Rathbone and Dermott are both mediocre at best. Agreed on Demko.


While Podkolzin and Hoglander are unproven. They both have 15 goal rookie season. Yes Kuzmenko is a question mark but as a third liner, it shouldn’t be hard to meet expectations. Our top 9 is still very young
Höglander - 21
Pettersson - 23
Boeser - 25

Mikheyev - 27
Miller - 29
Garland - 26

Podkolzin - 21
Horvat - 27
Kuzmenko - 26

None of them are even 30 yet. Most of them haven’t even entered their prime. From what they’ve shown, that could be one of the most dangerous top 9’s in the NHL if they can put it together. Our forwards are the least of concerns now which is why I have them on the strengths list

As for the defense, calling OEL terrible simply just you going off of other internet user’s opinions. OEL was bad before he came to Vancouver, but this year, he was very good defensively. Him and Myers were surprisingly one of the best defensive pairings in the entire league. His offense dried up a bit which is not surprising since we have Hughes. He is still very good. Calling Rathbone mediocre is questionable. He’s one of the best prospect d-men in the league and one of the best offensive d men in the AHL. As a third pair d man, I’d say he’s pretty overqualified.
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:21 a.m.
#469
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Quoting: Juiceman
While Podkolzin and Hoglander are unproven. They both have 15 goal rookie season. Yes Kuzmenko is a question mark but as a third liner, it shouldn’t be hard to meet expectations. Our top 9 is still very young
Höglander - 21
Pettersson - 23
Boeser - 25

Mikheyev - 27
Miller - 29
Garland - 26

Podkolzin - 21
Horvat - 27
Kuzmenko - 26

None of them are even 30 yet. Most of them haven’t even entered their prime. From what they’ve shown, that could be one of the most dangerous top 9’s in the NHL if they can put it together. Our forwards are the least of concerns now which is why I have them on the strengths list

As for the defense, calling OEL terrible simply just you going off of other internet user’s opinions. OEL was bad before he came to Vancouver, but this year, he was very good defensively. Him and Myers were surprisingly one of the best defensive pairings in the entire league. His offense dried up a bit which is not surprising since we have Hughes. He is still very good. Calling Rathbone mediocre is questionable. He’s one of the best prospect d-men in the league and one of the best offensive d men in the AHL. As a third pair d man, I’d say he’s pretty overqualified.


Breaking this down bit by bit:

1) I wasn't saying that their top 9 isn't good-it unquestionably is. I was just saying it's not elite-and while it could become that, it's not there yet. Agreed that their potential is tantalizing.

2) Come on, calling OEL and Myers "one of the best defensive pairings in the entire league" is just bias. One of the best in the entire league?! If you want to tell me that they weren't bad (I.E. better than expected), I'll bite, but there is no way, no way that they were "one of the best." They're simply not good. (BTW, this is my own opinion, regardless of what "other internet users" think or not.)

3) I'll change the terminology on Rathbone to the same I used for Podkolzin and Hoglander-"unproven." Tearing up the AHL does not certify you as an NHL-caliber player-if it did, players like Cody Glass would be claimed every time they went on waivers. Maybe he blossoms, maybe he doesn't-but it's too early to call him "overqualified" to be a 3rd pair D-man.
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Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:27 a.m.
#470
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Breaking this down bit by bit:

1) I wasn't saying that their top 9 isn't good-it unquestionably is. I was just saying it's not elite-and while it could become that, it's not there yet. Agreed that their potential is tantalizing.

2) Come on, calling OEL and Myers "one of the best defensive pairings in the entire league" is just bias. One of the best in the entire league?! If you want to tell me that they weren't bad (I.E. better than expected), I'll bite, but there is no way, no way that they were "one of the best." They're simply not good. (BTW, this is my own opinion, regardless of what "other internet users" think or not.)

3) I'll change the terminology on Rathbone to the same I used for Podkolzin and Hoglander-"unproven." Tearing up the AHL does not certify you as an NHL-caliber player-if it did, players like Cody Glass would be claimed every time they went on waivers. Maybe he blossoms, maybe he doesn't-but it's too early to call him "overqualified" to be a 3rd pair D-man.


I was surprised about it as well but the stats prove it. They were actually good somehow.
FD6pnuEWUAIw-RI.jpg:large
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:29 a.m.
#471
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Quoting: Juiceman
I was surprised about it as well but the stats prove it. They were actually get good somehow.
FD6pnuEWUAIw-RI.jpg:large


Sandin and Liligren cool

Thats gonna be a fun pair once those 2 fully peak
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Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:29 a.m.
#472
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Breaking this down bit by bit:

1) I wasn't saying that their top 9 isn't good-it unquestionably is. I was just saying it's not elite-and while it could become that, it's not there yet. Agreed that their potential is tantalizing.

2) Come on, calling OEL and Myers "one of the best defensive pairings in the entire league" is just bias. One of the best in the entire league?! If you want to tell me that they weren't bad (I.E. better than expected), I'll bite, but there is no way, no way that they were "one of the best." They're simply not good. (BTW, this is my own opinion, regardless of what "other internet users" think or not.)

3) I'll change the terminology on Rathbone to the same I used for Podkolzin and Hoglander-"unproven." Tearing up the AHL does not certify you as an NHL-caliber player-if it did, players like Cody Glass would be claimed every time they went on waivers. Maybe he blossoms, maybe he doesn't-but it's too early to call him "overqualified" to be a 3rd pair D-man.

On OEL-Myers I would say they were decent. I think they had a very good start and then faded a bit. Among D pairs with 300+ mins together they were 62nd in xGA/60, and 31st in GA/60. Their xG% was only 49.3% though, and G% was exactly 50%, so even though they were decent defensively when compred to the league, they were overall a net neutral whenever they were on the ice (not providing any positive offense to go with their decent chance suppression). Which in all honesty is a lot better than most people (me included) thought they’d be, but not really super high end. So maybe a happy medium here.
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:30 a.m.
#473
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Quoting: aadoyle
Sandin and Liligren cool

Thats gonna be a fun pair once those 2 fully peak


Gonna be hard to do when Sandin is traded
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:31 a.m.
#474
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Quoting: Alfie11
On OEL-Myers I would say they were decent. I think they had a very good start and then faded a bit. Among D pairs with 300+ mins together they were 62nd in xGA/60, and 31st in GA/60. Their xG% was only 49.3% though, and G% was exactly 50%, so even though they were decent defensively when compred to the league, they were overall a net neutral whenever they were on the ice (not providing any positive offense to go with their decent chance suppression). Which in all honesty is a lot better than most people (me included) thought they’d be, but not really super high end. So maybe a happy medium here.

They kinda faded because we never had any consistent lines or d pairings
Jul. 17, 2022 at 12:31 a.m.
#475
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Quoting: Juiceman
I was surprised about it as well but the stats prove it. They were actually good somehow.
FD6pnuEWUAIw-RI.jpg:large


That is indeed surprising, but I think luck and goaltending (especially the latter, as Demko is a beast) both factor into this, as I'm not buying Hagg-Pysyk as a better pairing than McDonagh-Cernak (just to use one example).
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