I'd call this a fair deal for all parties involved.

While SJ definitely didn't win this trade, I think they made out okay considering how little they retained and how little leverage they probably had. Pitt and MTL move some bad deals out and some impact players in and don't really give up anything of long term value to do so.

I still question what SJ could have gotten had they been willing to eat more of EK's salary, but for all we know the return might not have been worthwhile to do so and instead they just took the future cap space.

Does that mean if Hoffman had a no-trade clause, and Pittsburgh was on his no-trade list but San Jose wasn't, they wouldn't have been able to do this deal? If so, then I guess something of little value would have to go from San Jose to Montreal so they can say he went directly from Montreal to San Jose without stopping in Pittsburgh on the way.

Yeah that part of the trade burned pretty good. Like the rest of it makes sense for long term cap flexibility, but giving up a 3rd when SJ should be collecting assets? Booo.
It is in 2026 though, so likely they imagine not needing the pick as much as PIT will around that time. Imagine when they sell off at the TDL they will be more focused on 2024 and 2025 picks.

Still funny though. My guess is it was part the concession for Grier to not have to retain that much.

lol... all of the trade except the 1st was a concession for Grier to not have to retain that much!

Unless he waived it, yeah I think so. But this is all my interpretation I'm no expert.

No, but maybe an additional 8-9 mill in cap dumps, but either way, they are still saving more cap in Y3-4 when they may want to compete

Double that retain amount would have cost the Pens T. Smith or O. Pickering, triple the retain amount and Pens would have added a conditional 2nd Rd pick (with upgrade to a 1st Rd'er)

So yes, SJS lost the trade, but the owners stood firm on not paying EK65 %25 to %33 of his salary for 4 years to play elsewhere.

They won't be competitive in 3-4 years as far as I can see.

Didn't we say that about Buffalo 2 years ago? NJD 2 years ago? Who knows these days

I believe the relatively flat salary cap has been helping bad teams get better faster, because in addition to drafting earlier they also typically have more cap space, which has become much more valuable than when everybody was getting more every year, but I think we knew NJ and Buffalo had the makings of good teams with two #1 overall draft picks, other promising young players, and a couple of other smart moves. Buffalo was a little different because their young players seemed to be stalled in their development for a while and Skinner was on the decline, but the upside was still there, and settling the Eichel issue seemed to be the catalyst for them to finally put it together. I don't see anything like that in San Jose. Maybe they have a good prospect pool, but it doesn't look like it's as far along as New Jersey and Buffalo were two years ago.

Who's to say SJ doesn't get that either? SJ can have that prospect pool in Y3+4 and be competitive which is why SJ needs that cap open just in case

We didn't. Both those teams had a stack of great prospects. Who does San Jose have? Where is their Jack Hughes, their Rasmus Dahlin, their Dylan Cozens? My hands would tire from typing the names of all the high draft picks / young players both teams had two years ago, Hischier, Holtz, Hughes, Mittelstadt, Peterka, Samuelsson, Power, Quinn, Levi, Rosen...

Which SJ ownership is well within their rights to do, but its not like the Sharks are going to be competitive anytime soon. So did they really need the cap space that they got 2 years down the road for retaining less?

As always, it may have just come down to dollars and cents. I agree that SJ probably "loses" this deal, but considering the bounds that Grier had to play in and how little leverage he actually had, I'd say he did alright.

the things is no one really knows what would be the offer for karlsson retain more. the is a big fat chance that teams were not willing to pay the price to make the retention worthwhile. we can go and say that they could have got an extra 2 first round pick but we dont know and i personally think the offers were just not worth it.

Just the $1.5 million retain will cost the SJS owner $6 million over 4 years.

Now imagine how the SJS owner would feel about paying $3.5 million x 4 years ($14 million).

The pipe dream of getting two 1st Rd'ers plus extra for 50% retain would have cost the SJS owner $23 million.

So with adding these numbers into the context of the trade, Dubas didn't outplay Grier as much as people like to believe.

i personally think its a fair trade for all side, they got what they wanted, we'll see how it turns out for everyone in a few years, maybe there will be a clear winner.

Im just trying to say there might never have been a haul available for karlsson half retained as some people in the comment seems to believe.

I think it was reported that 20% was the most the SJS were willing to retain and they were hoping for two 1st Rd'ers + extra's back for that.

So receiving only one 1st Rder plus extra for 12% isn't too bad.

SJ "wins" in that they get rid of an albatross contract. They're not going to be competitive for the rest of EK's contract, so getting rid of most of his cap hit and a draft pick for him is a win. Maybe could have gotten more for EK, but they accomplished their goal.
MTL "wins" in that they got rid of stuff they don't want and got prospect/picks.
Pitt takes on an immense risk, if EK can provide something close to last year and they have a good playoff run they win. If they get back the finals they WIN. If reverts to how he was the prior 3 years, they're paying 10M for a lousy defenseman and they lose.

If EK65 plays at Petry level, then that's a big L for the Pens.

Dubas is lucky the Pens core of 4 forwards (Crybaby, Malkin, Guentzel. Rust) and top Dman (Letang) only cost him $32 million but in Toronto their top 4 forwards (Matthews, Marner, JT, Melander) and top Dman (Reilly) cost him $47 million.

Will Smith... And they also have others that SJ fans will tell you about... On top of their 2024 pick which should be a lotto pick

Excellent points. 4 years is a long time to retain salary, and the dollars add up. How much money and cap hit are you willing to spend to buy a draft pick?

This doesn’t necessarily mean that the Sharks’ owner isn’t willing to spend money to improve the team. The 4x$4.25M cap hit they saved by retaining 13% instead of 50% could be used to acquire other draft picks in return for taking on other cap dumps. That could net them more than what Pittsburgh was willing to give them for 50% retention. Or they could use the cap space for something else.

There's not much of high value behind Will Smith... and he was just drafted not two months ago. Eklund is decent but he'll be 21 this fall and isn't setting the world on fire, Bordeleau will be 22 this winter and is significantly behind where Mittelstadt was at the same age. This rebuild is going to take 5+ years, you can't do it on 1 or 2 teenagers.

The Pens already won the deal. After the trade, it's confirmed their ticket sales bounced back huge! Their sellout streak ended last season. Same as with Bedard in Chicago. This is a business after all. The Pens pushed their chips to the center of the table and got back their stake and then some.
The Sharks owners folded their cards while Grier is due the loan sharks big bucks that he'll need years to repay with no guarantee of success.

I'm just saying... there are guys... They also acquire decent out of the blue picks and their 2024 and 2025 picks and they can be rolling in Y3/Y4...