ANA declines, value is off.

Not sure everyone is so high on trading Holl. The guy had usage/results comparable to Colton Parayko last season and is signed to value and term. He will for sure get the opportunity to do it again next season.

nylander is better, younger, and signed longer than rakell

also, manson is not nearly the player he once was, Muzzin is better and he only cost us a 1st, a 4th liner and a meh prospect

if we're trading nylander to anaheim I want fowler or drysdale coming back the other way. they would obv never do that, but that's why you don't trade nylander for anything other than a #1 dman with term

I agree, the argument "he was only good with muzzin" amuses me, bc while it was kinda true (there were also tons of other injuries on the blue line at that time as well), doesn't that mean we can just play him with muzzin?

and we have the added insulation of brodie as well, who could flip to his left side to play shutdown minutes with Holl (if muzzin is out) and maybe we could run a rielly dermott pair in case of injury etc.

point is, holl was fantastic for us playing intensely difficult minutes in effectively his first NHL season

I see what you did there with the title.

So clever!!

Came here solely for the title haha. Love it! William Bystander.

If we ever get a season... Holl will prove a lot of "leaf fans" wrong this year. Provided all stay healthy, the Muzzin/Holl pairing will be lights out.

I'm shocked by the first comment posted here.

Anaheim would gladly trade two years each of Rakell and Manson for four years of Nylander. This is the easiest PleasePleasePleasePleasePlease EVER.

P.S. In case I was being unclear, we're not entitled to Holl or the second, too.

Curious to see what usage/results you're trying to go by...

Here's the xSPAR model which accounts for usage/results. Parayko had 5x Holl's value last season. And that was down from the previous season for Parayko.



Holl's performance without Muzzin was below league average as well.

Parayko:
64 GP 1228 TOI 49.41 CF% 51.67 SF% 48.04 X GF% 49 % SCF 45% HDSC
Holl:
68 GP 1082 TOI 51.80 CF% 52.24 SF% 52.99 X GF% 52.86 SCF% 51.57% HDSC

Usage I'm referring to QoC and starting in the defensive end most of the time. His results without Muzzin? Who cares. With Muzzin he was a stud and that has value.

I'm not going to tell you that Holl is as good as Parayko. I am going to tell you he has earned a chance to show he is a capable NHL defenseman though.

Not a big fan of the argument of "With Muzzin" he was ok and without him terrible... you know who else was good "with Muzzin"... Doughty....

Imma pass on this one chief.
I’d prefer to get packages for Rakell and Manson separately

Toronto fans will say Holl is fantastic and then trade him for nothing in LITERALLY 99.9% of every ACGM on this board.

Holl was 20 minutes a game player, a plus, and was the Leafs best RHD last season.
But again there is this fascination that other teams RHD are so much better than any Leaf players.
Gee, don't think the Leafs should trade 2m X 3 years Holl for 4.1m X 2 years of the current edition of Manson.
And Rakell, he's a 20 goal scorer and good value at 3.75m but only for the next two years. Nylander has room to grow, he was good last year and has four years left at 7m
Leafs would gain 1,2m in cap ....with the trade. But Leafs lose three years of control and lose on the ice.

Nylander's not worth any number 1 d-man... what are you smoking?

The people who like Holl and the people who trade him for nothing are usually in two different categories.

Except Doughty being bad is a myth, every player in the NHL that's been ask what they think of him say he's still elite. PLaying on an atrocious team and having a bad contract will hurt anyone's reputation but make no mistake Doughty's still elite. Remember 2/2 and a half years ago everyone said Weber was done because MTL was so bad. Yet it turns out these people who obviously know nothing about hockey were dead wrong, as Weber's still a top 12 d-man in the league,

Meant zero disrespect towards Doughty as elite. I meant more in the fact that People are saying Muzzin is the only reason Holl looked good.

And this is true. The only 12 ish games he's looked like a top 4 d-man were the games he played with Muzzin... and a big chunk of that was when Keefe took over, when the team was red hot.

Besides that he's looked like a number 6. No more no less.