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2022-23 NHL Season Discussion Thread #12: Judgement Day Approaches

Feb. 28, 2023 at 11:50 a.m.
#126
Bedard23
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
If I’m Domi, Athanasiou, Seth Jones or Murphy, im getting the f*ck out of Chicago


Bedard: fine, I’ll do it myself
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 11:50 a.m.
#127
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Quoting: pinslack
Very valid concern, well put. This has to be a subject for the next GM meeting.


I don't see the big deal in the Chychrun case. He asked out. Coyotes thought they had a deal done; they didn't. If he gets hurt he likely stays past the deadline. Neither team nor player has that as the preferred option. Chychrun camp seems perfectly content with the situation.

For Gavrikov, it seems like Columbus likewise thought there was a deal in place or nearly done with Boston. For players in his situation who want to play and aren't, the NHLPA should be filing a grievance. I don't think there is a mechanism to directly address the issue because the league doesn't have (and doesn't want) oversight of game lineups, but the if the NHLPA brings up the issue in specific instances, first quietly and then more publicly, the heat behind the scenes is probably enough to get clubs back in line.

I don't think the league wants to get involved in overseeing clubs' lineups and telling them who they can scratch and who they must dress. For good reason; it'd be an even bigger freaking mess. Is the league going to tell Torts he can't bench players because their reputation is too good? It'd be Pandora's box for all lineup decisions. "You can't play your backup tender against that team, because it'd be tank-ish." "Toronto and New York offices took a vote, and you can't bench player X, because we think he's better than player Y."
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 11:53 a.m.
#128
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Quoting: Juiceman
How is this supposed to work? What do they mean by scrutinize. It is either legal or its not... Wtf is in between?


I’m guessing it’s like Hossa where the league double checked the medical records (and iirc had an independent doctor check him out) to assure the hawks weren’t circumventing.
Feb. 28, 2023 at 11:57 a.m.
#129
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Quoting: Juiceman
How is this supposed to work? What do they mean by scrutinize. It is either legal or its not... Wtf is in between?


What they mean by scrutinize is probably constantly check up if the player is LTIR legal
Feb. 28, 2023 at 11:57 a.m.
#130
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
That's not how i see it, i see it as "make sure the player you're acquiring won't come back before the playoffs"


Yeah, I see it as "The league does not want to listen to the PA complaints that you have to leave a guy you picked up at the deadline inactive at the end of the season because you don't have room under the cap. Do not make this our problem or you won't like our solutions."
Feb. 28, 2023 at 11:58 a.m.
#131
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Edited Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:15 p.m.
Quoting: Pompadour_de_Armstrong
I don't see the big deal in the Chychrun case. He asked out. Coyotes thought they had a deal done; they didn't. If he gets hurt he likely stays past the deadline. Neither team nor player has that as the preferred option. Chychrun camp seems perfectly content with the situation.

For Gavrikov, it seems like Columbus likewise thought there was a deal in place or nearly done with Boston. For players in his situation who want to play and aren't, the NHLPA should be filing a grievance. I don't think there is a mechanism to directly address the issue because the league doesn't have (and doesn't want) oversight of game lineups, but the if the NHLPA brings up the issue in specific instances, first quietly and then more publicly, the heat behind the scenes is probably enough to get clubs back in line.

I don't think the league wants to get involved in overseeing clubs' lineups and telling them who they can scratch and who they must dress. For good reason; it'd be an even bigger freaking mess. Is the league going to tell Torts he can't bench players because their reputation is too good? It'd be Pandora's box for all lineup decisions. "You can't play your backup tender against that team, because it'd be tank-ish." "Toronto and New York offices took a vote, and you can't bench player X, because we think he's better than player Y."


Entirely agree.

I just worry that into the future, if nothing is done - the strategy of sitting for trade related reasons seems super successful - why wouldn’t it be used more.

Then you can imagine a future where more players are sat for longer.

In this scenario, when bad teams come to play at your arena, the fans buying tickets are not watching the best players compete, there could be less interest in watching games on television due to the lack of competition, and additionally, with the incorporation of gambling into the NHL, there is a legitimate concern that the competitive imbalance will cause betting lines to skew drastically at late hours due to unforeseen trade scratches, potentially causing the betting houses to lose money. (I know, boo - hoo - but this is a revenue stream for the NHL, good or bad - I do not gamble on pro sports personally)

In Chychruns case I totally get that Chychrun wants it, but the other 31 clubs are probably not too pleased. In Gavrikov’s case, he has been scratched since Boston did what they did.

Edit: ultimately, my view is using the term trade related reasons is the dumb part. They should have just healthy scratched and that’s it, end of story. It’s the clubs right to healthy scratch anybody anytime. By specifically calling it trade related I feel they opened the door to getting their butts spanked a little bit.

Edit again: consider the gambling aspect. If you are a competitive pro sports gambler, would you partake near the trade deadline if you didn’t know whether one team would be skating its best players or not? In my mind, it would either bring in speculation, or cause people to stay away since they couldn’t possibly know one way or the other what a teams composition is. Ultimately, If the betting line moves a ton shortly before the competition, that’s money inflowing to one side, wrecking all the previous positions gamblers took (from the houses’ perspective), and the house is trying to correct so it can maintain its neutral stance where it always wins. This results in a bigger spread in a sense, which reduces the winnings for the successful side of the bet in philosophical sense. The house has to claw back a bit.
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:04 p.m.
#132
I make typos
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:07 p.m.
#133
torontos finest
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Quoting: A2023tdlGuesses
I bet these players aren’t happy about this. Nyqvist is 33, pending UFA, Henrique is 32, 1 year from ufa, Monahan 28, pending UFA, and any others similar. A solid playoff run can mean $.

I do feel for pro athletes because it’s like…most of us pick where to work and when to quit/retire. These dudes have to wait until they’re 27 to have a choice where they play and they’re forced retired mid thirties in many cases. Of course they get bags of money, but some of them may never sign a decent contract, or have to deal with stuff like this when they were injured on the job.

All that being said, if a player is medically cleared they should be taken off LTIR. LTIR should never be used to beat the cap.

While that is the case, many injuries - such as muscular skeletal are basically the words of one person to another. A back injury is pretty hard to prove. So there will probably always be shenanigans if the player and team are on the same page. I’d consider most humans are dishonest by nature when in ultra competitive states. The whole win at all costs mentality is real unfortunately (or fortunately, perhaps that’s why the species exists today)


yeah it's aimed at the teams looking to maximize their cap space to go deep into the playoffs but it's also a giant middle finger to the selling teams. essentially not allowing them to unload players that are done with them so they can have a chance to play during the postseason.

nhlpa will be mad about it but i doubt they'll actually do anything
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:18 p.m.
#134
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Quoting: A2023tdlGuesses
Entirely agree.

I just worry that into the future, if nothing is done - the strategy of sitting for trade related reasons seems super successful - why wouldn’t it be used more.


Guys have been healthy-scratched pre-deadline forever. "So-and-so didn't dress tonight. Trade?"

The only difference is this year the Coyotes started the "healthy scratch for trade-related reasons" trend, and this year two high-profile deals got torpedoed late in the process and well before the deadline.

It's not ideal. Optics aren't great. But it's a tempest in a teapot, imo. People are just addicted to outrage in every facet of their lives including sports, and the sports media knows pushing a new angle for morale outrage generates clicks and revenue.

Even though I feel a little bad for Gavrikov in his situation, it's not that big of a deal. I really don't care. No-one needs to white knight multi-millionaire athletes for e-clout unless they need to feed their addiction (or generate clicks for their blog/employer).
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:19 p.m.
#135
WentWughes
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How does the owner allow him to continue having a job? Hextall built one of the better up and coming teams and Fletcher destroyed it within a few years and now they're heading for another rebuild...
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:20 p.m.
#136
Tintin over 1122
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS




He’s going to screw it up
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:20 p.m.
#137
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Quoting: oilersguy




Yesterday, Holland heard someone say on the wireless that Edmonton was adding Kane at the deadline, so he went to take an afternoon nap content.
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:23 p.m.
#138
Ovchinnikov 137
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FqBjk75WAAMwC9G?format=jpg&name=900x900
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:24 p.m.
#139
I make typos
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OMG FINALLY
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:24 p.m.
#140
WentWughes
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:25 p.m.
#141
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Anybody speculate what Chychrun to Edmonton looks like as a trade?

4.6 AAV - 2 years left

It would be outstanding for Edmonton if Arizona retained similar to McCabe going to Toronto. 2.3 AAV and all they’d have to do is move Puljujarvi for the cap side.

Perhaps Puljujarvi (NEVERMIND), Broberg, 1st, conditional 1st? With Chychrun and some random winger going back?

Broberg first first then?
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:25 p.m.
#142
Tintin over 1122
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS




It’s one either Tyler with 6 mil. Miller 5.25mil or Brock 6.65(I’m pretty sure)
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:28 p.m.
#143
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Quoting: oilersguy




OMG FINALLY


Carolina is the perfect team for him
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:29 p.m.
#144
do not Devil my ass
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Fantastic! Now the Oilers are in a great position to take on Edmundson's entire cap hit :'D
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:30 p.m.
#145
WentWughes
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Think that's a win for Edmonton. Pusitola is a legit prospect and they aren't retaining anything for a floater. 3m off the books.
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:32 p.m.
#146
I make typos
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Think that's a win for Edmonton. Pusitola is a legit prospect and they aren't retaining anything for a floater. 3m off the books.


where are you getting that he the piece coming back?

edit: nevermind
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:33 p.m.
#147
I make typos
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Quoting: oilersguy
where are you getting that he the piece coming back?




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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:39 p.m.
#148
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Think that's a win for Edmonton. Pusitola is a legit prospect and they aren't retaining anything for a floater. 3m off the books.


I don’t know what you define as a floater , Puljujarvi is one one of the best forecheckers in the league. He just has 0 finishing touch
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Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:40 p.m.
#149
Tintin over 1122
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Quoting: Db1899
I don’t know what you define as a floater , Puljujarvi is one one of the best forecheckers in the league. He just a 0 finishing touch


That’s gonna be McMichael in a couple years
Feb. 28, 2023 at 12:40 p.m.
#150
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Quoting: capsfan2121
That’s gonna be McMichael in a couple years


Mcmichael can finish lol
 
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