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Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 12, 2023 at 1:19 p.m.
Thread: Enough to get it done
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Letsgosharks</b></div><div>is Connor Timmins good? I literally have no idea I just see these leafs posts sending him away every time</div></div>

Timmins been good in the few games he played with the Leafs between this and last year, and had a monster pre-season before being sidelined with an injury which is what's has been holding him back his entire career. Decently high draft stock but always injured, so who knows, would be a nice pick for the Sharks imo had they not had Addison already. I wouldn't say Timmins is a PP Specialist but they likely to have competition for that spot which might be good, but if they are both kept, it would likely lead to crowding each others' space like Burns + Karlsson. The move would probably to be to re-sign Addison to a one-year deal next year, and then they can decide the following year which to keep if not both.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 12, 2023 at 12:54 p.m.
Thread: Larsson
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DealFinder67</b></div><div>I personally don’t see Niemela becoming a top 4 D. I see him being a bottom pair guy that plays power plays. Kind of like Tyson Barrie, Timmins, Klingberg was. My opinion of course as I haven’t seen him play on the defensive side of the puck. But I don’t like that he is undersized and not physical.</div></div>

From what I hear of Niemela, he's not a PP1 QB type, he's definitely a TWD, maybe can play PP2. I also wouldn't call Barrie and especially Klingberg bottom pair guys. Barrie when he used to produce is a top 4 guy that a deep team would put on their 3rd pairing similar to what NJ did with Severson last year except that Barrie is more of a PP1 QB specialist. Klingberg is/was a top 4, even on a deep team that guy would be expected to be able to play heavy minutes since he was arguably a top 2 at his peak (even though his defensive issues were always a problem). Like Barrie, Klingberg made for a good PP1 QB but he definitely wasn't expected to just be a specialist playing 20+ minutes He did end up on the Leafs 3rd pairing but he was playing injured, and he is now 31. So, even Niemela ends up being the next Klingberg would be worth while keeping him. But again, Niemela has a different profile, if he's ends up being a 3rd pairing guy, it would be for his defense more than anything probably.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 3:27 p.m.
Thread: Pens Fans need to calm down
Two cups in the previous decade and 3 with this core just isn't enough for some people I guess. Props on the post and being able to appreciate the success the Pens had, being rid of Hextall, and their current situation.

It's clearly that the next 3 to 5 years is just going to be about giving Crosby and Co a chance to win another Cup but on their terms which is probably why the status quo was kept in the net with the Jarry signing. I imagine Guentzel is going to come back as well unless there are contract issues there or they can upgrade (but even then doubtful). At the end of the day, Pens fans should just be hopeful rather than expecting to win, especially since the Atlantic has gotten even stronger now, and are likely to take both wild-card spots, whether it be this year or the next.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 3:05 p.m.
Thread: Pens Fans need to calm down
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jpsnow13</b></div><div>As he did in Toronto, I 100% count on Dubas to trade away all his high picks to dump salary, get old veterans and cheap average players, all in the spirit to calm down the fanbase/ star players by having the team make the playoffs, loose in the 1st round and dangle that there is always next season...</div></div>

Toronto had a young core. The Pens will be headed into a rebuild sooner rather than later, he's not using high picks to dump salary which he only has done twice in Toronto, once to fix Lou's mistake and another time to fix his own but he got a high 2nd back.

The Pens might not make it past the first round or even make the playoffs but that's just the nature of the situation with trying to keep the core together which extends beyond the trio, they are going to want to win together at the end of the day. It's either this or a full tear-down rebuild, and the choice was made by Hextall or Fenway before Dubas was even in charge.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 2:16 p.m.
Thread: Broberg Trade that might make sense
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mk458</b></div><div>Fair enough! Maybe Chicago isn't the right place for Broberg. I just want him to go somewhere he can get some minutes, he's got so many of the raw tools to be a good defender</div></div>

Chicago could be the right place for Broberg but I'm just saying that they probably don't bring him in at the expense of Vlasic. He could maybe be put on the right side as you suggested. While the draft does have a ton of good defensive prospects and CHI might be looking to add some RHD or just good defensive prospects in general as <a href="/users/SlickWilly" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@SlickWilly</a> said, I imagine CHI is going to have a top 3 pick, and they will likely select a forward unless they maybe fall to #3, so I don't think they will be selecting any of the top 10 defenders. Whoever they pick with their TB pick might not be expected to be as good as Broberg was/is expected to be (although he hasn't shown anything yet).
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 1:49 p.m.
Thread: Broberg Trade that might make sense
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mk458</b></div><div>Broberg, can play the right side! He's comfortable on either side

Hmmmm, I would've thought Chicago fans would want Alex Vlassic to get more time in the AHL this season instead of being thrown to the wolves like he has been. Don't you think Broberg could take his spot so Vlassic can get top line minutes in the AHL?</div></div>

Honestly, there aren't any lofty expectations, it's more of a challenge for him, so playing in the NHL is hardly throwing him to the wolves in this case. He'll probably develop better and have more time to get accustomed to the team's systems and bond with other members of their young core. He's probably happy with the better pay as well. The team will also get the opportunity to sign him to a pretty cheap bridge/long-term deal as well, the more the play him, it gives them a better sample on what to expect out of him so that they don't end up overpaying for him.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 1:41 p.m.
Thread: Vrana off waivers 59 28 out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dgibb10</b></div><div>It would be based on them not completing AND Dougie coming back during the season.

Bahl+Vanacek: 4.5 mill
Pettersson+Ned:5.5

Needs to be salary in salary out, and I imagine they'd rather have vanacek as a backup then retain on pettersson for 2 years. <strong>I'm sure you could find a home for Vanacek after this year</strong>.

If dougie is out until playoffs we can keep vanacek tho.</div></div>

Even next year though, that would be extra work that could cost them an asset as well depending on how urgent they need to move him. I would imagine though that they do look to re-sign Guentzel or a another top 6 forward if Reinhart or Nylander become UFAs but also replace Pettersson with another top 4 D.

On Jersey's side of things, even if Dougie was out for the regular season, I don't think they add Pettersson (or a defender with term) without moving out Vanecek (or someone else) to make the cap work for next year. It would just be on Fitz to figure that one out, but perhaps he does take his chances. I don't see another GM, especially Dubas, looking to unnecessarily take on a problem, got to think that's the main reason why Chychrun didn't end up becoming a King last year. I would imagine there would be other teams interested in Pettersson if the Pens were looking to move him.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 12:50 p.m.
Thread: Vrana off waivers 59 28 out
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dgibb10</b></div><div>My offer for Pettersson is Vanacek+1st+2nd/Bahl

Other lower end prospects and picks could be on the table to get it over the finish line.

McLeod fits our roster and timeline just too well to move I think. 25 year old quality bottom 6C, faceoff man, and PK guy. Fits with the speed of the team.

In the real market I don't think he'd be valued at more than a 2nd+3rd, but at least for me I'd need a ton to sell him.</div></div>

Would need to find a new home for Vanecek elsewhere even if the rest of the package was good enough for Pettersson. They wouldn't want that additional 3.4M spent on goaltending even if it was for the year (assuming they are still looking to compete at the time of the trade), definitely not with an additional year of term.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 11, 2023 at 7:54 a.m.
Thread: Larsson
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CBA</b></div><div>I think you didn't realise Larsson isn't a rental either
I don't see Niemela becoming a solid top 4 dman in the NHL
But fair deal anyway for Larsson</div></div>

No, I did see that he wasn't a rental but he only has one year left beyond this season. I don't think it's a fair deal, and if the Leafs management/development department are in agreement with you about Niemela, then it makes perfect sense to deal with him instead of a pick. I would rather they trade some other prospect and a pick, because I think it's too early to move on from Niemela. He's looked good so far and he's still only 21, and any defenseman that they likely draft going forward will likely require 5+ years to even crack the NHL roster, let alone become a top 4 D. With the aging blueline and the prevalent need the Leafs have on the backend, that's too long imo. Niemela might need like 3-6 years before he becomes a top 4D but I think he can make it.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 10, 2023 at 7:57 a.m.
Thread: Life without Willy
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GiggywithGibby</b></div><div>A 1st for his signing rights? Now that is outright delusional. If it's clear an extension isn't getting done you take the best offer available for his signing right.</div></div>

Not for mere signing rights, a sign and trade but I wasn't saying they would get that, I'm talking about would it be worth taking. No one is going to pay it for rights and probably not in a sign and trade either (of course I'm not suggesting a rebuilder give up a 1st either) but that's not the point. The point is it's not worth trading him for a 3rd unless there's zero chance of signing him because 1) he doesn't want to sign with the team or 2) they clearly don't have the cap to sign him (e.g they only have 5M in cap and he's going to cost 10m+), neither of which is true for Toronto at this time.

Some players you simply don't give up trying to sign them just because they are about to hit the open market and Nylander is one of those players. All that happens on July 1st is the team loses any advantage that they had over other teams, they likely lose him as well but it's quite possible to still retain him. It's better to lose him for nothing while trying to sign him in the last minutes before he becomes a UFA and trying to sign him as a UFA, than to get a 3rd for him, which is nothing in comparison.

If he says he's not signing then, sure, you take the best offer as long as he's not going to a division rival. If it's known that he intends to go to a division rival, then you don't help them get him for cheaper, even for a 3rd.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 9, 2023 at 11:53 p.m.
Thread: Life without Willy
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SwarmChair</b></div><div>My bad.

Ahh k didn’t realize that. Yeh RFA vs. UFA is gonna make a difference there. I’m still surprised the return would be so low though, but I guess that’s the value of just Rights. Would a sign and trade be at all possible to maximize return…?</div></div>

Well, if they are doing a sign and trade like NJ did with Severson, I would imagine that they could probably get more than just a 3rd, I would suspect up to a late 1st, or early 2nd, but maybe not. If CHI is doing this though, I think a) either they need a lower AAV on the 8-years or they just trade or b) they trade a 3rd for his rights just to be able to pitch a 7-year deal to him before anyone else can. That extra year is more so for the player than it is for the team if the AAV is not coming down.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SwarmChair</b></div><div>Ahh okay thanks for the explanation. Makes sense now. So it’s kind of like the Hyman situation then, where he was UFA and Dubas was trying to get a small pick from the Oilers to get him that 8th year. But then Dubas didn’t take the pick. What was up with that?</div></div>

I think Dubas wanted a 4th based on what teams would ask him for similar savings in terms of retention and the Oilers thought that was too much since guys usually go for 5ths or lower. Holland never offered what he wanted.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 9, 2023 at 11:01 p.m.
Thread: Life without Willy
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SwarmChair</b></div><div>And all you want is a 3rd rd pick for his signing rights?</div></div>


I think that's just silly to cut off any chances of being able to re-sign him for a mere 3rd. A 1st? Maybe. The Leafs will lose any advantage they have over other teams once he hits FA, but that also means Nylander is potentially losing money by missing out on that 8th year, a good team or a team that he would be interested in doesn't need to be going to offer him a similar offer. Both Panarin and Tavares passed on higher AAV offers to end up in NY and TOR, Panarin still ended up being the highest-paid winger but it's not like Tavares ended up being the highest-paid C, although he had the opportunity supposedly.

See the edit below as well.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GMBL</b></div><div>There's no news or rumors on the negotiations, all we know is that he's not officially signed yet. Some of those who are proposing Nylander trades think it's more important to retain assets than it is to keep him for the run and try to retain him up (until he signs with another team in FA) due to the risk of potentially losing him for nothing. So, they might come up with a trade that addresses some needs but more than likely wouldn't even be available.</div></div>
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 9, 2023 at 10:46 p.m.
Thread: Life without Willy
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Bennecon</b></div><div>Idk if someone would actually offer something like that but for Chicago who is paying no one 12 mil a year isn’t too bad and when they are good the cap will be up

But 12 x 8 is 96mil total
At 7 years to get to 96mil a team would have to pay 13.7mil a season.

So Chicago doing this would make it so no other team could or want to match</div></div>

Why would they trade a 3rd to make him the highest-paid winger? If some team makes Nylander the highest-paid player at 13.7M, every other GM will be mad because that's going to raise the cost of players but they aren't going to try to even compete with that. Nylander's camp wouldn't even be expecting to get an offer like that in FA, they might hope for something like 12M-12.5x7 maybe, so something like 10.5M-11Mx8 or 12Mx7 (whatever they would have offered him as an FA) is something that CHI might do.

Can't imagine the Leafs trading him for a 3rd either, if he hits FA, they still have a chance to retain him, so they would likely want something ridiculous like a 1st (CHI's 2nd) if they are going to close that door off.