Forums/NHL Trades

(MTL / VGK) - Tatar, Suzuki, 2019 2nd for Pacioretty

Who won the trade?
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Sep 10, 2018 at 10:21
#26
Habs4Ever
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 927
Quoting: JonJon
So far McPhee has done good job replacing Neal and Perron.


He let those 2 walk and then trade 1st + Suzuki + Tatar (What he gave up at the deadline) and signed Statsny to pretty much have the same team... That is pretty bad asset managing IMO
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:25
#27
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,851
Likes: 2,898
So now that Neal and Perron are gone, the Knights sign Stastny, and now trade for Pacioretty. So they're not really worse than they were before. They might not make the final again, but i don't know why there are a bunch of people saying they're gonna miss the playoffs. They just made it to the Stanley cup final, i think especially now, i'd be very surprised if they missed.
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:26
#28
J.L.
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 183
Likes: 65
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
He let those 2 walk and then trade 1st + Suzuki + Tatar (What he gave up at the deadline) and signed Statsny to pretty much have the same team... That is pretty bad asset managing IMO


He could just have lost those two without replacing them. After last season they want to get back to the finals. You think Tatar and Suzuki had what it takes? Better than Statsny and Pacioretty right now?
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:27
#29
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,207
Likes: 6,375
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Tatar is being paid 4.8m for the remainder of his contract... Easier to trade for Montreal.. His contract was top heavy so the team won't be paying him that much anyways. Tatar can easily be dumped (Worse case scenario which won't happen) is needed to. He is still a consistent 20+ goal scorer and will produce with Montreal similar to what he did on Detroit


We'll see if Tatar can be dumped that easily. Three years at 4.8m....doesn't scream great value. He should OK, Habs might find best value at the TDL 2021 when he's on an expiring contract.
Funny how Habs like this deal. For the past few months, Hab fans posting on this site thought Patches would get considerable more.
HabsRafiki and KoneDome liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:31
#30
Habs4Ever
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 927
Quoting: JonJon
He could just have lost those two without replacing them. After last season they want to get back to the finals. You think Tatar and Suzuki had what it takes? Better than Statsny and Pacioretty right now?


Or just sign Perron + Neal and still have 2nd + Suzuki....
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:32
#31
Habs4Ever
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 927
Quoting: palhal
We'll see if Tatar can be dumped that easily. Three years at 4.8m....doesn't scream great value. He should OK, Habs might find best value at the TDL 2021 when he's on an expiring contract.
Funny how Habs like this deal. For the past few months, Hab fans posting on this site thought Patches would get considerable more.


He is a constant 20+ Goal Scorer.. that is a solid middle six winger for any team in the NHL. I always thought he would get 1st+ Top Prospect... They got 2nd + Top Prospect + Tatar which seems close to or maybe even more than I originally thought he would get
pavelisgoat liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:43
#32
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,671
Likes: 1,322
The one interesting thing here that I don't think anyone is really considering with Tatar....how will he do in a defensive minded CJ system? Maybe I'm wrong, but Tatar isn't really know to be a defensive kind of guy and unless CJ has changed his philosophy, that put Tatar with limited TOI.
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:49
#33
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 934
Likes: 256
Quoting: palhal
We'll see if Tatar can be dumped that easily. Three years at 4.8m....doesn't scream great value. He should OK, Habs might find best value at the TDL 2021 when he's on an expiring contract.
Funny how Habs like this deal. For the past few months, Hab fans posting on this site thought Patches would get considerable more.


Habs have loads of space, so they can eat half of Tatar's contract. At $2.5 or so, Tatar, assuming he has a decent start, would garner nice trade value.
MountRoyal514 liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 10:58
#34
GM in the Making
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 43
Likes: 7
To me this is the very definition of a hockey trade.

Vegas, in win-now mode (try saying THAT two years ago...), sell some of the future to pay for today, while Montreal sells a big part of today (out of the conference, no less, so smart move there) to get better tomorrow. Both teams got their players below contract value (Vegas for this season, Montreal for the next three).

I'll be interested to see Pacioretty's extension dollars, got to imagine it starts with a 7, or a very high 6, with a full NMC and a modified 10-12 team NTC.
Sep 10, 2018 at 11:06
#35
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,634
Likes: 662
The real winner probably won't be known until we see how Suzuki pans out at the NHL level, but MTL would benefit greatly from a 2019 top 5 draft pick. Losing Pacioretty will only help their cause of tanking this season. Vegas was able to rectify the Tatar trade-the only questionable move the McFee has made as GM. Finally, Bergevin makes a long term play.
Karimizo liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 12:41
#36
MountRoyal514
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 719
Likes: 228
Quoting: palhal
Funny how Habs like this deal. For the past few months, Hab fans posting on this site thought Patches would get considerable more.


We Habs fans are just relieved that the return was good enough since Bergevin has come up on the losing end of high profile trades on more than a few occasions. Its not a perfect trade perhaps, but Suzuki seems like a legit prospect that fills multiple needs for the Habs and they got a 2nd as well as a player who can score 20 goals a year. We'll take it and move forward.
palhal liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:08
#37
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 542
Likes: 84
If you look all the way back to 2007 when they drafted Subban, McDonagh, and Pacioretty its pretty clear why this team couldn't get over the hump. In the last 10 drafts look at all their picks from the first two rounds:
2008:
56th: Danny Kristo (Danny who?)

2009:
18th: Louis Leblanc (I remember watching this live and fans went crazy because he was french, how did that turn out?)

2010:
22nd: Jarred Tinordi (hasn't played in NHL in two years)

2011:
17th: Nathan Beaulieu (another French player, can hardly play in Buffalo)

2012:
3rd: Alex Galchenyuk (7 Defenseman went after Galchenyuk. To mention a couple: Reilly, Trouba, Lindholm, Dumba. Can you imagine one of those guys with Subban?)
33rd: Sebastien Collberg (Sebastien who?)
51st: Dalton Thrower: (no comment needed)

2013:
25th: Michael McCarron (never worked out)
34th: Jacob De la Rose (19 pts in 119 GP)
36th: Zach Fucale (what happened with him?)
55th: Arturi Lehkonen (not a bad pick)

2014:
26th: Nikita Scherbak (kind of TBD, but probably a bad pick)

2015:
26th: Noal Juulsen: (also kind of TBD, but probably another bad pick)

2016:
9th: Sergachev (probably their best pick of all, but we know how this ended)

2017:
25th: Ryan Poehling (TBD)

2018:
3rd: Kotkaneimi: (TBD)


Goes to show, if they had hit on even just one or two of these picks, maybe they would have gotten that Center they always needed for Pacioretty or that D-man to play with Subban. Could have been a lot different.
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:10
#38
Habs4Ever
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 927
Quoting: KoneDome
If you look all the way back to 2007 when they drafted Subban, McDonagh, and Pacioretty its pretty clear why this team couldn't get over the hump. In the last 10 drafts look at all their picks from the first two rounds:
2008:
56th: Danny Kristo (Danny who?)

2009:
18th: Louis Leblanc (I remember watching this live and fans went crazy because he was french, how did that turn out?)

2010:
22nd: Jarred Tinordi (hasn't played in NHL in two years)

2011:
17th: Nathan Beaulieu (another French player, can hardly play in Buffalo)

2012:
3rd: Alex Galchenyuk (7 Defenseman went after Galchenyuk. To mention a couple: Reilly, Trouba, Lindholm, Dumba. Can you imagine one of those guys with Subban?)
33rd: Sebastien Collberg (Sebastien who?)
51st: Dalton Thrower: (no comment needed)

2013:
25th: Michael McCarron (never worked out)
34th: Jacob De la Rose (19 pts in 119 GP)
36th: Zach Fucale (what happened with him?)
55th: Arturi Lehkonen (not a bad pick)

2014:
26th: Nikita Scherbak (kind of TBD, but probably a bad pick)

2015:
26th: Noal Juulsen: (also kind of TBD, but probably another bad pick)

2016:
9th: Sergachev (probably their best pick of all, but we know how this ended)

2017:
25th: Ryan Poehling (TBD)

2018:
3rd: Kotkaneimi: (TBD)


Goes to show, if they had hit on even just one or two of these picks, maybe they would have gotten that Center they always needed for Pacioretty or that D-man to play with Subban. Could have been a lot different.


Scherbak + Juulsen definitly aren't bad picks. Both are going to be NHL players.. Scherbak is a pretty much lock in the top 6... Juulsen was on the 3rd pairing last year but that is because he is behind Weber and Petry
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:13
#39
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 542
Likes: 84
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Scherbak + Juulsen definitly aren't bad picks. Both are going to be NHL players.. Scherbak is a pretty much lock in the top 6... Juulsen was on the 3rd pairing last year but that is because he is behind Weber and Petry


Scherbak might make their top 6 right now, but that doesnt make him a top 6 FWD. Colton Orr could make their Top 6. He has shown nothing since being drafted 4 years ago.
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:14
#40
Captain_Canada16
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 55
Likes: 14
Quoting: HockeyWise
Bergevin came in with a 24 years old Max Pacioretty, 23 years old PK Subban, 25 years old Carey Price, and a 3rd overall pick. Now 6 years later, this.

I mean, it's a decent return for Pacioretty, and this means rebuild. But just the fact that he wasted all that talent hurts so much. Will never forgive the Sergachev trade.


Now would you be in favour of a blockbuster trade that sent Price elsewhere.... his value is still 'sky high' and i believe the rebuild in MTL is not the right fit for him.
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:17
#41
Habs4Ever
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 927
Quoting: KoneDome
Scherbak might make their top 6 right now, but that doesnt make him a top 6 FWD. Colton Orr could make their Top 6. He has shown nothing since being drafted 4 years ago.


I can tell you don't watch the Habs... over a PPG in the AHL at 21 on the worst team in the league.
Goes to Habs and is instantly one of the top threats on the team.. has he produced in terms of points,no. But he was constantly one of the bigger threats on the Ice everynight.
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:18
#42
Habs4Ever
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,027
Likes: 927
Quoting: Captain_Canada16
Now would you be in favour of a blockbuster trade that sent Price elsewhere.... his value is still 'sky high' and i believe the rebuild in MTL is not the right fit for him.


He has a full NMC... Only way he gets traded is if he wants to be traded.. Don't ask him to waive.. Only way we should trade Price is if he requests to be traded
Sep 10, 2018 at 1:37
#43
Stars GM for V3
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,025
Likes: 1,442
Quoting: OpaqueZoo
Guys I think the expectations were so low on this return that people think Montreal won. Montreal still didn't win the deal, but the return was better than expected.


I think there's an element of truth to that.

Pacioretty should have netted a higher return at an earlier date. Montreal could have had something along the lines of Zadina, Suzuki (or similar), and Veleno. They drafted for need with Kotkaniemi, which wouldn't have been necessary, allowing them to take a more consensus high pick and grab an insurance policy C prospect later in the 1st round. Veleno was available until #30.
Coincidentally, Detroit ended up with the two players I feel Montreal should have picked up (Zadina and Veleno), while Montreal ended up with former Red Wing Tatar.

Given how poorly this was handled, and how long it lasted, I'm surprised the return was decent enough that my immediate reaction wasn't disgust at Bergevin. I'm still not happy that he let it get to this point, but as far as salvaging what he could out of the terrible situation he created, I don't think anyone else could have done much better.
Sep 10, 2018 at 2:14
#44
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 908
Likes: 242
it leans towards favoring the Canadians but not a huge amount. Suzuki was a very good prospect, tatar is an NHL player who was a bit overpaid but is getting some of that retained, plus the second round pick(which is a good chance of being earlier in the round then it was this past season).

It is more than I thought montreal was going to be able to get, but not as crazy as some Canadians fans were demanding in their projecting deals(1st plus top prospect plus maybe more)
Sep 10, 2018 at 2:27
#45
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 71
Likes: 10
Quoting: KoneDome
If you look all the way back to 2007 when they drafted Subban, McDonagh, and Pacioretty its pretty clear why this team couldn't get over the hump. In the last 10 drafts look at all their picks from the first two rounds:
2008:
56th: Danny Kristo (Danny who?)

2009:
18th: Louis Leblanc (I remember watching this live and fans went crazy because he was french, how did that turn out?)

2010:
22nd: Jarred Tinordi (hasn't played in NHL in two years)

2011:
17th: Nathan Beaulieu (another French player, can hardly play in Buffalo)

2012:
3rd: Alex Galchenyuk (7 Defenseman went after Galchenyuk. To mention a couple: Reilly, Trouba, Lindholm, Dumba. Can you imagine one of those guys with Subban?)
33rd: Sebastien Collberg (Sebastien who?)
51st: Dalton Thrower: (no comment needed)

2013:
25th: Michael McCarron (never worked out)
34th: Jacob De la Rose (19 pts in 119 GP)
36th: Zach Fucale (what happened with him?)
55th: Arturi Lehkonen (not a bad pick)

2014:
26th: Nikita Scherbak (kind of TBD, but probably a bad pick)

2015:
26th: Noal Juulsen: (also kind of TBD, but probably another bad pick)

2016:
9th: Sergachev (probably their best pick of all, but we know how this ended)

2017:
25th: Ryan Poehling (TBD)

2018:
3rd: Kotkaneimi: (TBD)


Goes to show, if they had hit on even just one or two of these picks, maybe they would have gotten that Center they always needed for Pacioretty or that D-man to play with Subban. Could have been a lot different.


Just to let you know, Beaulieu isn't French. He's a full Anglo Ontario boy.
Sep 10, 2018 at 2:59
#46
Formerly EthanK24
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,271
Likes: 1,012
Imagine 2 years ago someone told you Pacioretty would finally get a number 1 center on the Stanley Cup finalists. And that center is William Karlsson.
KSIxSKULLS liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 3:13
#47
Habs/Pens fan
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 768
Likes: 225
I like this return a lot for patches, Tatar is a downgrade but a decent player in his own right, Suzuki has great potential as well and a 2nd which is good value. Love Patches a lot but good luck in Vegas. I thought it be worse for him and I wasn't expecting Suzuki at all.
KSIxSKULLS liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 3:41
#48
Subbanator
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 572
After Pacioretty resigning in Vegas I think this trade is a fair one for both teams. Montreal looks better in the future, Vegas looks better now.
Sep 10, 2018 at 4:59
#49
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 78
Likes: 18
I voted fair deal, but now that I think about it more, Montreal kind of wins this one, if only because they didn't lose Pacioretty to FA without any return. I get Vegas's angle here; they just lost Neal and so Pacioretty basically replaces him. But Neal has more big game experience and seems like a more outspoken leader type than Pacioretty, so I don't know if Pacioretty will be able to take those reigns. He is younger though, and has more recent high point/goal seasons; a bad year last year but the Canadiens as a whole were pretty bad.

Overall, seems like a unneeded desperation move by Vegas. They are already selling their young assets to try and make a run at the cup. But I guess they are racing the clock right now; either win big now or risk losing this "fan base" to the NFL.
MountRoyal514 liked this.
Sep 10, 2018 at 6:58
#50
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 72
Likes: 13
If they trade Tatar and Price, plus with the good amount of picks they have now
They'll have the picks to start a good rebuild
 
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