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2023 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #3 - Free Agent Frenzy

One of the more popular debates online recently has been Malkin vs Kane. Who do you guys think had the better career? I'm going with Geno
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 9:33 a.m.
#801
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
How come the Ottawa Senators cap situation isn't a bigger deal? I keep hearing them as possible landing spots for players, and of course there is the DeBrincat situation.

Shane Pinto is likely to get $2-3 million AAV as an RFA and with a healthy Josh Norris and Anton Forsberg (will start on LTIR but is expected to be ready December/January) they are $5 million over the cap WITHOUT DeBrincat.


By my count, the Sens with a 22 man roster, everyone healthy and Debrincat and Pinto at 9+2mil puts them about 4million over the cap, I think you mathed wrong somewhere
Jul. 4, 2023 at 9:46 a.m.
#802
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
By my count, the Sens with a 22 man roster, everyone healthy and Debrincat and Pinto at 9+2mil puts them about 4million over the cap, I think you mathed wrong somewhere


I had a 23 man roster for each team when I did my calcs. I have Pinto at $2.5 million AAV based on Dobbers projection. I looked back at my Armchair GM and did find a typo (fat fingered Mandolese's deal) and have them at $4.6 over now so we look close. I used DeBrincat's minimum arbitration award for 1 year since I can't see him staying in Ottawa any other way.
Jul. 4, 2023 at 10:27 a.m.
#803
Respect Mike Grier
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Flyers just gotta draft Demidov next year and it's wraps for the league.

Gauthier - Demidov - Michkov shall be known as the World War 2 Line
Jul. 4, 2023 at 12:16 p.m.
#804
Respect Mike Grier
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Wild to me. Wish Flyers waited on FA signings and took a flyer on Zadina instead of like Poehling.
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 12:23 p.m.
#805
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Amirov Forever
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
Flyers just gotta draft Demidov next year and it's wraps for the league.

Gauthier - Demidov - Michkov shall be known as the World War 2 Line


Demidov is such an insane talent. Him and Michkov on a team would spell trouble for the league
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 12:55 p.m.
#806
Jamie Benn is BACK
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What do you all know about Derrick Pouliot? Looks like he got a good bit of NHL time early in his career, but has primarily been an AHL guy for the past 4 seasons. Looks like he's gonna be in Cedar Park this season.
Jul. 4, 2023 at 1:12 p.m.
#807
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Quoting: kdawg32086
What do you all know about Derrick Pouliot? Looks like he got a good bit of NHL time early in his career, but has primarily been an AHL guy for the past 4 seasons. Looks like he's gonna be in Cedar Park this season.


I know that the first 6 goals of his career were all game winners

Thats about it
Jul. 4, 2023 at 1:13 p.m.
#808
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Steve Yzerman on June 22nd, 2018 when he was tasked with making the 6th overall selection
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 1:34 p.m.
#809
Respect Mike Grier
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05




Steve Yzerman on June 22nd, 2018 when he was tasked with making the 6th overall selection


He was a Ken Holland pick
Jul. 4, 2023 at 1:59 p.m.
#810
Bo Horvat enjoyer
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John Gibson when I asked him about his trade request:
“Yes, the reports are true. I want out of Anaheim. I’m not wearing those ugly ass jerseys for another second.”
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 2:09 p.m.
#811
Tintin over 1122
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What’s vlad contract
Jul. 4, 2023 at 2:23 p.m.
#812
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05




Steve Yzerman on June 22nd, 2018 when he was tasked with making the 6th overall selection


Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
He was a Ken Holland pick


I think what's getting lost in the fray here is that Zadina was a consensus top-3 pick that year: some analysts had him at #2 overall, but nobody had him slated for lower than #3. He had an NHLe of 26.394p on draft day. This is a pick that should have worked. I don't think there's any sense on dunking on Holland for this being a bad pick (not that I'm an apologist) as any of Bouchard, Dobson, or Hughes had a lot more variance to where the industry thought they should go. The dunking should be solely reserved for whatever development system Detroit claims to be operating. That's what failed Zadina. The first pick of their rebuild - Rasmussen - likewise turned into a pumpkin. Their second-round selections from 2017-2019 have all essentially flopped too, with no real top-six/four talent emerging out of any of Berggren, McIsaac, Lindstrom, or Tuomisto.

I watched Edmonton do this for years, where prospects didn't get any insulation or support through the system and ultimately missed their potential. I can't/won't speak for the management/ownership in Detroit, but it's clear that some of these kids were rushed and/or put in situations where they couldn't have succeeded.

Detroit essentially had to restart its rebuild with the Seider selection. Since then, I think Yzerman's group has done okay in terms of drafting. The trajectories of Wallinder, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, and Danielson will be telling.
Jul. 4, 2023 at 2:25 p.m.
#813
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05




Steve Yzerman on June 22nd, 2018 when he was tasked with making the 6th overall selection


Holland pick. Was a slam dunk pick at the time. Consensus top 3 talent. Montreal and Arizona made the biggest reaches at the time
Jul. 4, 2023 at 3:07 p.m.
#814
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It’s crazy how hard it is to make the nhl. You can be the best in the world at 17 and not play a game at that level. I feel it will continue to get more difficult as over time: player archetypes have become more prominent as team systems have become more refined, implying you have to be very good at a subset of things to earn a role, and if you fail at your role you cannot simply just take a lesser role, because a different archetype is perfecting a different subset. Every inch under 6 foot of height alone creates a gigantic barrier thanks to historic results.l, especially for specific archetypes.

Coronavirus cap and expansion era will allow more skaters an nhl opportunity, so these numbers may skew in the short term. We may see more cases like Zadina in the near term.
Jul. 4, 2023 at 3:11 p.m.
#815
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Quoting: Juiceman
Holland pick. Was a slam dunk pick at the time. Consensus top 3 talent. Montreal and Arizona made the biggest reaches at the time


Correct. Montreal shocked everyone by taking a center (Kotkaniemi) top 3 when it was considered a weak draft for centers. Tkachuk was also a moderate surprise. Was a very divisive prospect. Some had him very high, and others had him late. Hayton was another reach who was supposed to be a late 1st, early second guy. Every one was shocked when they passed over the consensus #3 prospect, a goal scorer sitting there. No-brainer pick for Detroit considering the hype around him and how he was regarded around the league.
Things like this are why I don't get worked up too much about reaches or the consensus ratings. There are always things going on behind the scenes that the fans and media aren't aware of too. He might have dropped based on interviews with coaches, teammates, himself, etc. that gave a much more complete picture than the CSB and media rankings.
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:14 p.m.
#816
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Who had the better season?

Player A
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 25.8 minutes a night
PPG: 0.94
EVO: 7.7
EVD: 4.9
Off: 13.7
Def: 4.6
GAR: 17.5
WAR: 3.0
Missed playoffs

Player B
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 25.7 minutes a night
PPG: 0.97
EVO: 15.1
EVD: 2.9
Off: 16.4
Def: 1.6
GAR: 20.5
WAR: 3.5
Missed playoffs
Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:23 p.m.
#817
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Quoting: Juiceman
Who had the better season?

Player A
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 25.8 minutes a night
PPG: 0.94
EVO: 7.7
EVD: 4.9
Off: 13.7
Def: 4.6
GAR: 17.5
WAR: 3.0
Missed playoffs

Player B
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 25.7 minutes a night
PPG: 0.97
EVO: 15.1
EVD: 2.9
Off: 16.4
Def: 1.6
GAR: 20.5
WAR: 3.5
Missed playoffs


Both are good, player A is more well rounded while player B is an offensive dynamo
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:27 p.m.
#818
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: Juiceman
Who had the better season?

Player A
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 25.8 minutes a night
PPG: 0.94
EVO: 7.7
EVD: 4.9
Off: 13.7
Def: 4.6
GAR: 17.5
WAR: 3.0
Missed playoffs

Player B
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 25.7 minutes a night
PPG: 0.97
EVO: 15.1
EVD: 2.9
Off: 16.4
Def: 1.6
GAR: 20.5
WAR: 3.5
Missed playoffs


Dahlin and Hughes, respectively. To answer, I'd say Dahlin. Quinn had the better counting numbers, but Dahlin and the Sabres were actively doing something with Rasmus' production.
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Dahlin and Hughes, respectively. To answer, I'd say Dahlin. Quinn had the better counting numbers, but Dahlin and the Sabres were actively doing something with Rasmus' production.


Well don't we have a Sherlock Holmes here
Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:32 p.m.
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Ban Price trades
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Quoting: Juiceman
Well don't we have a Sherlock Holmes here


PPG and missed playoffs gave them away. And that they kind of fall in line with the discussion of the 2018 draft.

I still think Dahlin was the right choice at #1. Hughes is making a damn good case for #2, and I think only Tkachuk challenges him for that slot all-time. Svechnikov is a solid #4. Bouchard, Dobson, and Miller will fight for #5-#7 for the rest of their careers.
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:44 p.m.
#821
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
PPG and missed playoffs gave them away. And that they kind of fall in line with the discussion of the 2018 draft.

I still think Dahlin was the right choice at #1. Hughes is making a damn good case for #2, and I think only Tkachuk challenges him for that slot all-time. Svechnikov is a solid #4. Bouchard, Dobson, and Miller will fight for #5-#7 for the rest of their careers.


Those are definitely the best players right now but I think someone like Kirill Marchenko, Joel Farabee, Mattias Samuelsson, etc could slot themselves into some of the higher ranges of the 2018 draft
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:49 p.m.
#822
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Who had a more mid season:

Player A
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 23 minutes a night
PPG: 0.33
EVO: 0.3
EVD: -1.9
Off: -0.8
Def: -3.9
GAR: -3
WAR: -0.5
Missed playoffs

Player B
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 21 minutes a night
PPG: 0.22
EVO: 0.7
EVD: 0.5
Off: 0.9
Def: -2.4
GAR: -4.3
WAR: -0.7
Missed playoffs
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 4:54 p.m.
#823
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
PPG and missed playoffs gave them away. And that they kind of fall in line with the discussion of the 2018 draft.

I still think Dahlin was the right choice at #1. Hughes is making a damn good case for #2, and I think only Tkachuk challenges him for that slot all-time. Svechnikov is a solid #4. Bouchard, Dobson, and Miller will fight for #5-#7 for the rest of their careers.


My rankings would be:

1. Hughes (Maybe I'm biased)
2. Dahlin (Doesn't play for my favourite team tax)
3. Tkachuk
4. Svechnikov
5. Bouchard (Interchangeable with Dobson. I have him higher due to recency bias)
6. Dobson (Rough year)
7. Miller
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 5:09 p.m.
#824
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: Juiceman
Who had a more mid season:

Player A
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 23 minutes a night
PPG: 0.33
EVO: 0.3
EVD: -1.9
Off: -0.8
Def: -3.9
GAR: -3
WAR: -0.5
Missed playoffs

Player B
Position: Defenseman
TOI/GP: 21 minutes a night
PPG: 0.22
EVO: 0.7
EVD: 0.5
Off: 0.9
Def: -2.4
GAR: -4.3
WAR: -0.7
Missed playoffs


Provorov vs Jokiharju?

Last one could be Myers but you asked who had the most mid season, not who was the most complete ass.
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Jul. 4, 2023 at 5:13 p.m.
#825
do not Devil my ass
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Quoting: Juiceman
My rankings would be:

1. Hughes (Maybe I'm biased)
2. Dahlin (Doesn't play for my favourite team tax)
3. Tkachuk
4. Svechnikov
5. Bouchard (Interchangeable with Dobson. I have him higher due to recency bias)
6. Dobson (Rough year)
7. Miller

ThE DiFfErEnCe bEtWeEn tY SmItH AnD QuInN HuGhEs iS LeSs tHaN A 1St rD PiCk
// Tintin, 2021
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