An argument supporting Monahans value

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The one element I'd add to all the other good points as to why Monahan isn't a good fit (for the Avs at least) is to (from the Avs perspective at least) negate the point that Habs fans fall back on EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Guys like Chiarot may have fetched a first. It was an overpay then and it didn't work out. I won't even go into Lehky as that's apples and akebi. Drouin and the arguments in that regard made by Habs fans? Apples and *insert another fruit here that is utterly different*. As a non-Habs example remember the whopping overpay Tampa made for Jeannot from Nashville? Those deals SHOULD make GMs more wary of making a similar mistake and if there is one front office that has proven themselves lairy of that kind of thing it's the one in Colorado. Deadline rentals (or even longer term additions in the immediate circumstances) rarely if ever make a huge difference. Even additions prior for that matter. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same thing over and over and expect different results. Every year teams do it and most front offices fail to learn. It's almost a 'Well I have to be seen to do something at the deadline' mentality. So don't get me wrong there may be a front office foolish enough to do it, but Monahan simply isn't worth a first, at least not to the Avs......and that is the point when it comes to the Avs, the only team I'm going to speak for in a direct fashion as, if I'm honest, I don't have enough knowledge of other front offices in any depth (we all tend to know more about our own team than any other by the definition of being fans). If GMCM does that (and who of us truly knows?) then he's certainly more foolish than I think he is.

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Jan. 20 at 11:13 a.m.

#36

Xqb15a

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Except 40% of his point production is on the power play and stylistically he is painfully to like RyJo and let’s face it he isn’t playing on PP1 with COL, and COL’s biggest problem right now is goal tending not 2c. They are 2nd in the league in scoring and 18th in GAA, and 26th in SV%, they need to address the situation in goal far before they expend assets on a position that is being manned just fine by Colton. COL should be far more interested in Allen imo.

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Jan. 20 at 11:20 a.m.

#37

Representing the 505

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Comparing Monahan and Compher strictly on points ignores everything else each player does and is. JTC is a much better skater than Monahan which means a lot on a team that transitions quickly and likes to play off the rush. JTC also PK's a LOT more than Monahan does and did; he was a primary PK guy for the Avs while Monahan is a secondary guy; for example, JTC has over twice as many PK minutes this season as Monahan in 5 fewer games.

All of this to say is that Monahan can't possibly be expected to fill the role JTC - a guy who isn't really a 2C, either - did for the Avs so, to the Avs at least, he isn't worth a 1st. I'd say he might be worth something less to fill the 3C role so that Colton can move to 2C but, given the guys he'd be playing with - Wood and O'Connor, two good, fast skaters - I'm not even sure that would work. I just don't think Monahan is a fit for the Avs roster and it is a near certainty he wouldn't be a difference-maker for them. If they're going to trade a 1st, they need someone that fits their style and the role of 2C better than Monahan.

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Jan. 20 at 11:24 a.m.

#38

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Fall River Habs

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Quoting: Xqb15a

Except 40% of his point production is on the power play and stylistically he is painfully to like RyJo and let’s face it he isn’t playing on PP1 with COL, and COL’s biggest problem right now is goal tending not 2c. They are 2nd in the league in scoring and 18th in GAA, and 26th in SV%, they need to address the situation in goal far before they expend assets on a position that is being manned just fine by Colton. COL should be far more interested in Allen imo.

Quoting: Xqb15a

Except 40% of his point production is on the power play and stylistically he is painfully to like RyJo and let’s face it he isn’t playing on PP1 with COL, and COL’s biggest problem right now is goal tending not 2c. They are 2nd in the league in scoring and 18th in GAA, and 26th in SV%, they need to address the situation in goal far before they expend assets on a position that is being manned just fine by Colton. COL should be far more interested in Allen imo.

Would you do a Monahan and Allen trade for a first round pick (perhaps with a bad short term contract coming back to make the financials work for Colorado)?

Jan. 20 at 11:29 a.m.

#39

CanMerc

Joined: Dec. 2023

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Quoting: KentMcNally

Oh I know there are those people out there, but there are also reasonable fans who have legitimate conversations about their teams too.

I usually do not respond to the “My GM laughs at your GM, hangs up the phone and blocks the number” commentators, because what is the point in trying to argue with that type of mindset?

Much like wasting time commenting on a trade proposal that’s been turned down countless times, but Habs fans keep posting out of pure stubbornness or ignorance..
It should tell you something that the only ones who agree with your valuation on Monahan are other Habscfans, and almost every other fan tells you he’s not worth a 1st…but you all keep posting, arguing, and telling us we’re biased and wrong… like children throwing a tantrum when they don’t get their way.

Jets Decline, laugh, hang up and block your number

WE DON’T WANT OR NEED MONAHAN…HE’S NOT WORTH THAT

Jan. 20 at 11:32 a.m.

#40

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Quoting: TJTwolf

The one element I'd add to all the other good points as to why Monahan isn't a good fit (for the Avs at least) is to (from the Avs perspective at least) negate the point that Habs fans fall back on EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Guys like Chiarot may have fetched a first. It was an overpay then and it didn't work out. I won't even go into Lehky as that's apples and akebi. Drouin and the arguments in that regard made by Habs fans? Apples and *insert another fruit here that is utterly different*. As a non-Habs example remember the whopping overpay Tampa made for Jeannot from Nashville? Those deals SHOULD make GMs more wary of making a similar mistake and if there is one front office that has proven themselves lairy of that kind of thing it's the one in Colorado. Deadline rentals (or even longer term additions in the immediate circumstances) rarely if ever make a huge difference. Even additions prior for that matter. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same thing over and over and expect different results. Every year teams do it and most front offices fail to learn. It's almost a 'Well I have to be seen to do something at the deadline' mentality. So don't get me wrong there may be a front office foolish enough to do it, but Monahan simply isn't worth a first, at least not to the Avs......and that is the point when it comes to the Avs, the only team I'm going to speak for in a direct fashion as, if I'm honest, I don't have enough knowledge of other front offices in any depth (we all tend to know more about our own team than any other by the definition of being fans). If GMCM does that (and who of us truly knows?) then he's certainly more foolish than I think he is.

I hear what you are saying and I do not totally disagree, but what you said about GMs overpaying every year at the trade deadline bolsters the argument that Montreal will get someone to pay the price, especially after Lindholm’s situation is somehow resolved.
Hopefully Montreal waits out the Lindholm situation in order to gain leverage with other teams and does not simply trade Monahan too early.

Jan. 20 at 11:35 a.m.

#41

Representing the 505

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Quoting: KentMcNally

Would you do a Monahan and Allen trade for a first round pick (perhaps with a bad short term contract coming back to make the financials work for Colorado)?

I can tell you, first of all, that the Avs just do not trade 1sts; it's kind of a rule of sorts for them. I mean, they did trade one to get Kuemper when they were in a serious bind for a goalie but that is the exception, not the rule. What you do have going for you is that Allen has another year left but you'd need to retain close to half to make it work for the Avs. You did mention taking back a bad contract so you'd also have to take Johansen. In terms of value, I'd say the following could work for the Avs but, like I said, they don't really trade 1sts:

To MTL:

2024 1st
Johansen
Behrens or Olausson

To COL:

Allen ($1M retained)
Monahan

And that's more to get Allen (retained) and get rid of RyJo than it is to get Monahan, who isn't a good fit for the Avs.

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Jan. 20 at 11:39 a.m.

#42

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Quoting: NMAvsFan

I can tell you, first of all, that the Avs just do not trade 1sts; it's kind of a rule of sorts for them. I mean, they did trade one to get Kuemper when they were in a serious bind for a goalie but that is the exception, not the rule. What you do have going for you is that Allen has another year left but you'd need to retain close to half to make it work for the Avs. You did mention taking back a bad contract so you'd also have to take Johansen. In terms of value, I'd say the following could work for the Avs but, like I said, they don't really trade 1sts:

To MTL:

2024 1st
Johansen
Behrens or Olausson

To COL:

Allen ($1M retained)
Monahan

And that's more to get Allen (retained) and get rid of RyJo than it is to get Monahan, who isn't a good fit for the Avs.

I would think Montreal would do that. (But as you said in your post, who truly knows? Ha!)

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Jan. 20 at 11:46 a.m.

#43

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Quoting: KentMcNally

I hear what you are saying and I do not totally disagree, but what you said about GMs overpaying every year at the trade deadline bolsters the argument that Montreal will get someone to pay the price, especially after Lindholm’s situation is somehow resolved.
Hopefully Montreal waits out the Lindholm situation in order to gain leverage with other teams and does not simply trade Monahan too early.

My point was exactly that. SOMEBODY. MAY. be stupid enough. I'm more than happy to concede that. There are some guys who get GMs jobs who I would fire immediately if (in pipe dream land I was a billionaire and) I bought an NHL team (pretty sure I'm not alone in that and anybody who has worked in ANY kind of business in management must have similar thoughts, it's an element that isn't related to being a fan or ACGM, it's just looking at some of their decisions). Some GMs are utter cretins. God only knows how they keep getting hired! The Avs front office, from Sakic's start at the helm to date, have proven to be very shrewd on the whole. That's why I say purely from the PoV of the Avs, though I do think a lot more of the newer GMs are starting to learn too. The Avs though are (imo) unlikely to be that team that gives up a first for Monahan and that is the frustration from the side of things, where Avs fans are concerned, when EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. another Monahan to the Avs for a 1st trade comes up. There's little evidence to suggest it would be a move they would make.

Jan. 20 at 11:48 a.m.

#44

Joined: Jan. 2017

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Quoting: NMAvsFan

I can tell you, first of all, that the Avs just do not trade 1sts; it's kind of a rule of sorts for them. I mean, they did trade one to get Kuemper when they were in a serious bind for a goalie but that is the exception, not the rule. What you do have going for you is that Allen has another year left but you'd need to retain close to half to make it work for the Avs. You did mention taking back a bad contract so you'd also have to take Johansen. In terms of value, I'd say the following could work for the Avs but, like I said, they don't really trade 1sts:

To MTL:

2024 1st
Johansen
Behrens or Olausson

To COL:

Allen ($1M retained)
Monahan

And that's more to get Allen (retained) and get rid of RyJo than it is to get Monahan, who isn't a good fit for the Avs.

I was about to reply with something similar though I think that 2nd year of Allen is a negative to the Avs rather than a positive which is why I don't think it works for the Avs.

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Jan. 20 at 11:53 a.m.

#45

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Quoting: KentMcNally

I would think Montreal would do that. (But as you said in your post, who truly knows? Ha!)

To me, there is a lot of value in covering the backup G issue for another year and getting a little over $1M in cap back for next season. They might ask for max retention because that nets them another $925K in space which might get you another low pick or C-level prospect like Beaucage. But I do think it's far more likely they save that pick to either use it or make a trade in the offseason that addresses their issues in a more long-term fashion.

Jan. 20 at 11:58 a.m.

#46

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Quoting: TJTwolf

I was about to reply with something similar though I think that 2nd year of Allen is a negative to the Avs rather than a positive which is why I don't think it works for the Avs.

To me, it resolves the backup G issue for next season, too, so it's a positive of sorts; not a perfect situation, though. If Montreal would retain half, then they have a veteran backup at $1.925M for one season which is just a little less than what they were paying Frankie so it fits plus they get almost $2M in cap freed up to address other needs. Trade Manson and now they have another $4.5M in space which could help them fill out the roster more effectively, especially up front.

Jan. 20 at 11:59 a.m.

#47

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Fall River Habs

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Quoting: TJTwolf

My point was exactly that. SOMEBODY. MAY. be stupid enough. I'm more than happy to concede that. There are some guys who get GMs jobs who I would fire immediately if (in pipe dream land I was a billionaire and) I bought an NHL team (pretty sure I'm not alone in that and anybody who has worked in ANY kind of business in management must have similar thoughts, it's an element that isn't related to being a fan or ACGM, it's just looking at some of their decisions). Some GMs are utter cretins. God only knows how they keep getting hired! The Avs front office, from Sakic's start at the helm to date, have proven to be very shrewd on the whole. That's why I say purely from the PoV of the Avs, though I do think a lot more of the newer GMs are starting to learn too. The Avs though are (imo) unlikely to be that team that gives up a first for Monahan and that is the frustration from the side of things, where Avs fans are concerned, when EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. another Monahan to the Avs for a 1st trade comes up. There's little evidence to suggest it would be a move they would make.

I would not get too worried about the fact that every day you see “Monahan to Colorado for a first rounder” trade proposal. Trade proposals happen to every team that some fans don’t like. As you know, it is not going to stop until the deadline is over. The trades usually are meant to start a discussion and not to aggravate a specific fan base (except the true troll posts that people put up that are ridiculous).

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Jan. 20 at 12:01 p.m.

#48

Xqb15a

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Quoting: KentMcNally

Would you do a Monahan and Allen trade for a first round pick (perhaps with a bad short term contract coming back to make the financials work for Colorado)?

Honestly I think Monahan is such a poor fit COL shouldn’t even consider him.

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Jan. 20 at 12:14 p.m.

#49